6 ms·

This rings true... there’s a tendency to exaggerate or maximalize in the US, certainly at least in the commercial realm.

boringg 6y ago
In this vein [but slightly off topic], can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups? The only one that comes to mind is Spotify. I was speaking with some people the other day and probably due to a NA centric focus we were at a lack of well branded EU starts up that had made it similar to US ones.
- avs733 6y ago
  Klarna, Revolut, and Hellofresh (German founding I believe) immediately pop to mind but I'm sure there are more if I did some searching. The recent trips to Europe I have been so intrigued by how different the apps people use for many common commercial tasks are to the ones I use at home. I'm assuming there are logistical, cultural, or compliance reasons at play but I can't speak to it.
  - boringg 6y ago
    Oh agree that there are a ton of other reasons for it was just curious. And to be honest I don't know any of those companies. Vaguely familiar with Klarna, no clue on Revolut, is hellofresh the originator or the follower of Blue Apron?
    - rossng 6y ago
      HelloFresh was founded before Blue Apron. And the modern mealkit business model was invented in Sweden about five years before that.
- ur-whale 6y ago
  > can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups Don't waste your time looking, there are none or almost none. EU is simply not geared (anymore) for this type of endeavor to succeed: - finance infrastructure for this is non-existent (VCs are a joke in Europe, both in terms of size and in terms of the type of stuff they invest in) - risk-taking is simply not a cultural value anymore - administrative burdens (taxes, labor laws, cost of labor, hyper-restrictive regulations, etc ...) are such a gigantic drag that most people potentially potentially capable of starting such things either walk away, or move to a place where they can actually conduct business (historically, the US, although it's not as good as it was). - at least in Western Europe, (Germany, France), people are so very comfy in their social cocoon (social security, retirement, social programs), the whole notion of "making it" (e.g becoming truly financially independent) is *very* hard for them to even understand. Net effect: no motivation, no GOOG/FB/AMZN/TESLA/SpaceX - the US has a "let the tree grow first, we'll regulate once it bears fruits" attitude towards emerging and potentially disruptive tech. The EU on the other hand has a "oh, my god, this is potentially very disruptive, someone ought to legislate, and quick". When you try to propose a SpaceX sized idea to a bunch of smart engineers in EU, the immediate reaction is a non-stop list of detailed explanation why the plan simply can't happen. Having really big plans in the EU is a guaranteed way to be classified as complete bozo.
  - oneplane 6y ago
    As someone from the EU, some of your points seem very true, but it's also simply a matter of many people not really having the same goals and requirements. There is no true independence in any society, apart from autocracy, and externalities always exist. There doesn't seem to be much value attributed to 'having a lot of money' etc, for a lot of people, having a fulfilling job, family and life is enough, and having the security of knowing that you can get sick and go to the hospital without being bankrupted, or knowing that you will be able to provide for your family directly or indirectly in almost all scenarios makes this whole "I need to be a billionaire to live" notion very non-existent here. You don't need a VC to be happy, you don't need to create a startup and you don't need to take a lot of risk to create value. This is of course directly related to the social cocoon; and knowing the value of that makes for very little need to take big risks for a chance of making things 'better' (whatever 'better' might be...). That said, there are a lot of self-bootstrapping businesses that function just fine. They don't go public and mostly don't make more than a couple of millions each year, but it is enough, or better: it is plenty. There is no rat race, you have plenty of vacation, you can travel the world, and if something goes wrong there are buffers to catch you. (but those aren't comfortable enough to just slack off in to and 'do nothing', but that'd be unfulfilling for most people anyawy).
    - mlon_eusk 6y ago
      chasing TC was never the goal, prometheus > zeus
    - R0b0t1 6y ago
      Your explanation fits into what he described, point 3 & 4. You're trying to justify why taking risks isn't required.
      - oneplane 6y ago
        It doesn't need justification, but for outsiders it might need explanations. There is no value in risk in itself.

boringg 6y ago

In this vein [but slightly off topic], can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups? The only one that comes to mind is Spotify. I was speaking with some people the other day and probably due to a NA centric focus we were at a lack of well branded EU starts up that had made it similar to US ones.

avs733 6y ago
Klarna, Revolut, and Hellofresh (German founding I believe) immediately pop to mind but I'm sure there are more if I did some searching. The recent trips to Europe I have been so intrigued by how different the apps people use for many common commercial tasks are to the ones I use at home. I'm assuming there are logistical, cultural, or compliance reasons at play but I can't speak to it.
- boringg 6y ago
  Oh agree that there are a ton of other reasons for it was just curious. And to be honest I don't know any of those companies. Vaguely familiar with Klarna, no clue on Revolut, is hellofresh the originator or the follower of Blue Apron?
  - rossng 6y ago
    HelloFresh was founded before Blue Apron. And the modern mealkit business model was invented in Sweden about five years before that.
ur-whale 6y ago
> can anyone point me to high profile megacap EU startups Don't waste your time looking, there are none or almost none. EU is simply not geared (anymore) for this type of endeavor to succeed: - finance infrastructure for this is non-existent (VCs are a joke in Europe, both in terms of size and in terms of the type of stuff they invest in) - risk-taking is simply not a cultural value anymore - administrative burdens (taxes, labor laws, cost of labor, hyper-restrictive regulations, etc ...) are such a gigantic drag that most people potentially potentially capable of starting such things either walk away, or move to a place where they can actually conduct business (historically, the US, although it's not as good as it was). - at least in Western Europe, (Germany, France), people are so very comfy in their social cocoon (social security, retirement, social programs), the whole notion of "making it" (e.g becoming truly financially independent) is *very* hard for them to even understand. Net effect: no motivation, no GOOG/FB/AMZN/TESLA/SpaceX - the US has a "let the tree grow first, we'll regulate once it bears fruits" attitude towards emerging and potentially disruptive tech. The EU on the other hand has a "oh, my god, this is potentially very disruptive, someone ought to legislate, and quick". When you try to propose a SpaceX sized idea to a bunch of smart engineers in EU, the immediate reaction is a non-stop list of detailed explanation why the plan simply can't happen. Having really big plans in the EU is a guaranteed way to be classified as complete bozo.
- oneplane 6y ago
  As someone from the EU, some of your points seem very true, but it's also simply a matter of many people not really having the same goals and requirements. There is no true independence in any society, apart from autocracy, and externalities always exist. There doesn't seem to be much value attributed to 'having a lot of money' etc, for a lot of people, having a fulfilling job, family and life is enough, and having the security of knowing that you can get sick and go to the hospital without being bankrupted, or knowing that you will be able to provide for your family directly or indirectly in almost all scenarios makes this whole "I need to be a billionaire to live" notion very non-existent here. You don't need a VC to be happy, you don't need to create a startup and you don't need to take a lot of risk to create value. This is of course directly related to the social cocoon; and knowing the value of that makes for very little need to take big risks for a chance of making things 'better' (whatever 'better' might be...). That said, there are a lot of self-bootstrapping businesses that function just fine. They don't go public and mostly don't make more than a couple of millions each year, but it is enough, or better: it is plenty. There is no rat race, you have plenty of vacation, you can travel the world, and if something goes wrong there are buffers to catch you. (but those aren't comfortable enough to just slack off in to and 'do nothing', but that'd be unfulfilling for most people anyawy).
  - mlon_eusk 6y ago
    chasing TC was never the goal, prometheus > zeus
  - R0b0t1 6y ago
    Your explanation fits into what he described, point 3 & 4. You're trying to justify why taking risks isn't required.
    - oneplane 6y ago
      It doesn't need justification, but for outsiders it might need explanations. There is no value in risk in itself.