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"You cannot rehabilitate a person without rehabilitating their self-esteem, their perception of being a man or a woman," she says. "You cannot ignore this part

by sage76 6y ago

"You cannot rehabilitate a person without rehabilitating their self-esteem, their perception of being a man or a woman," she says. "You cannot ignore this part in our life. It's very important, powerful. It's the centre of our personality. And you cannot just talk about it. Sexuality is something dynamic, is something that has to be between us and other people." Unfortunately, the prevailing sentiment is that you fix yourself in all other ways first, and then this aspect will automatically be ok. I would disagree (EDIT: with the prevailing sentiment) but this is a minefield of a discussion.

minikites 6y ago
Which part do you disagree with, the prevailing sentiment or the article quote?
- sage76 6y ago
  I disagree with the prevailing sentiment.
tartoran 6y ago
I agree with the sentiment. While this aspect raises the self esteem it should not be used to fill other gaps of unaddressed problems or problems lurking underneath the surface. But if feeling unwanted is part of the problem, this may well help people get better. And it’s not only sexual but merely human connection that helps an unbalanced psych enormously.
- sage76 6y ago
  > And it’s not only sexual but merely human connection that helps an unbalanced psych enormously. Which is why if you read about what incels say, it seems they don't want to see escorts. Most of their problems seem to lie in feeling unwanted. My guess is they are largely a byproduct of an atmoized individualistic society. They lack human connection, and see romantic connection as the ultimate one, reinforced by the fact that people tend to have fewer/no friends as they age.
  - airhead969 6y ago
    Incels, I think, have a chip on their shoulders and negative attitudes. If they had better perspectives, I think they would enjoy life more and connect with others in healthier ways. It is true though that social media, glowing screen distractions, and changing beliefs based on corporate manufactured/reinforced attitudes to leave insecurities and unfulfilled wants tend to put distance between people in the real world. The challenge is to make the extra effort to break through all that. I've found there are plenty of cool people who still socialize, and not just at an ephemeral, chit-chat level. It's just no one else wants to make the effort, aeveryone is waiting for Godot, and so nothing happens without initiative.
    - sage76 6y ago
      > I've found there are plenty of cool people who still socialize Maybe it was just the circle I made, but people were exhausted from work and trying to survive. They barely managed time for self care. Could be an American thing. But I find it fascinating that everyone complains about loneliness and then when anyone makes an initiative to do something, people have a 100 excuses.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    >> Most of their problems seem to lie in feeling unwanted. And exactly because of that they are the least attractive to potential mates. And instead of facing that they attack idea in itself. Their problems are initially psych related and there should be a cure to them if enough attention was paid to them clinically. Their forums are not part of the solution, they are creating it. The terrible negative advice and toxic evolutionary dogma, the idea that they are excluded from the genetic pool by genetically superiors, ascribing them epithets and making it all a game in which they are the anti-protagonists themselves cannot lead to a healthy psyche but I haven't heard of any orchestrated effort to help them out, there are only secret agents monitoring for potential violence outbreaks in these communities. They are instead embittered, self hating and fueled with resentment daily on these forums by the self proclaimed leaders of thought in these forums. They feel like they are rejected from both women and men. They feel out of place from this world and the only solace they find on forums. These people need to be paid some attention to, to be taken out on trips, healthy communities to be made for them since they are not capable of creating themselves but this is a societal ill in many ways.
stcredzero 6y ago
"You cannot rehabilitate a person without rehabilitating their self-esteem, their perception of being a man or a woman," Oddly enough, the 1st time I came across this idea was as a high school student in Marvel Comics' Secret Wars -- when X-Man Piotr Nikolayevich Rasputin/Colossus was healed. After his healer repaired the damage with her glowy magic hands, she proceeded to have a relationship with him. Meanwhile at least one onlooker concluded, that in her culture, this was all just a part of the healing process, and felt sorry for Piotr who had the wrong idea.

by sage76 6y ago

minikites 6y ago

Which part do you disagree with, the prevailing sentiment or the article quote?

sage76 6y ago
I disagree with the prevailing sentiment.

tartoran 6y ago

I agree with the sentiment. While this aspect raises the self esteem it should not be used to fill other gaps of unaddressed problems or problems lurking underneath the surface. But if feeling unwanted is part of the problem, this may well help people get better. And it’s not only sexual but merely human connection that helps an unbalanced psych enormously.

sage76 6y ago
> And it’s not only sexual but merely human connection that helps an unbalanced psych enormously. Which is why if you read about what incels say, it seems they don't want to see escorts. Most of their problems seem to lie in feeling unwanted. My guess is they are largely a byproduct of an atmoized individualistic society. They lack human connection, and see romantic connection as the ultimate one, reinforced by the fact that people tend to have fewer/no friends as they age.
- airhead969 6y ago
  Incels, I think, have a chip on their shoulders and negative attitudes. If they had better perspectives, I think they would enjoy life more and connect with others in healthier ways. It is true though that social media, glowing screen distractions, and changing beliefs based on corporate manufactured/reinforced attitudes to leave insecurities and unfulfilled wants tend to put distance between people in the real world. The challenge is to make the extra effort to break through all that. I've found there are plenty of cool people who still socialize, and not just at an ephemeral, chit-chat level. It's just no one else wants to make the effort, aeveryone is waiting for Godot, and so nothing happens without initiative.
  - sage76 6y ago
    > I've found there are plenty of cool people who still socialize Maybe it was just the circle I made, but people were exhausted from work and trying to survive. They barely managed time for self care. Could be an American thing. But I find it fascinating that everyone complains about loneliness and then when anyone makes an initiative to do something, people have a 100 excuses.
- tartoran 6y ago
  >> Most of their problems seem to lie in feeling unwanted. And exactly because of that they are the least attractive to potential mates. And instead of facing that they attack idea in itself. Their problems are initially psych related and there should be a cure to them if enough attention was paid to them clinically. Their forums are not part of the solution, they are creating it. The terrible negative advice and toxic evolutionary dogma, the idea that they are excluded from the genetic pool by genetically superiors, ascribing them epithets and making it all a game in which they are the anti-protagonists themselves cannot lead to a healthy psyche but I haven't heard of any orchestrated effort to help them out, there are only secret agents monitoring for potential violence outbreaks in these communities. They are instead embittered, self hating and fueled with resentment daily on these forums by the self proclaimed leaders of thought in these forums. They feel like they are rejected from both women and men. They feel out of place from this world and the only solace they find on forums. These people need to be paid some attention to, to be taken out on trips, healthy communities to be made for them since they are not capable of creating themselves but this is a societal ill in many ways.

stcredzero 6y ago

"You cannot rehabilitate a person without rehabilitating their self-esteem, their perception of being a man or a woman," Oddly enough, the 1st time I came across this idea was as a high school student in Marvel Comics' Secret Wars -- when X-Man Piotr Nikolayevich Rasputin/Colossus was healed. After his healer repaired the damage with her glowy magic hands, she proceeded to have a relationship with him. Meanwhile at least one onlooker concluded, that in her culture, this was all just a part of the healing process, and felt sorry for Piotr who had the wrong idea.