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My understanding as an outsider who has never been to the US is that the US hacker scene is quite different. One notable difference is a much closer connection

My understanding as an outsider who has never been to the US is that the US hacker scene is quite different. One notable difference is a much closer connection to e.g. intelligence services. On the other hand, the relationship to democratic processes, as well as the stance on state/federal involvement in IT problem spaces, seems to differ between Germany and the US. Again: I'm an outsider and would actually like to hear from others how they see this.

pizzapill 6y ago
> One notable difference is a much closer connection to e.g. intelligence services. Some CCC hackers had a pretty good relationship with the Russian KGB. They got information about a wide range of US military secrets including details about the Space Defense Initiative (SDI). They were so successful that they wound up dead and a movie was made about them. Since then the CCC has to be heavily infiltrated by all kinds of Intelligence Services.
- pantalaimon 6y ago
  > Since then the CCC has to be heavily infiltrated by all kinds of Intelligence Services. I think this more served as a cautionary tale to not get involved with this kind of agencies at all.
  - pizzapill 6y ago
    I think the CCC has a strong ethos to not work for such agencies but I'm sure many members do it, either because they are agents or because of other incentives.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Yes the Cuckoo's Egg by Clifford Stoll recounts this story well. However since then the CCC has been very honourable and I have nothing but respect for them.
- black_puppydog 6y ago
  At least the CCC of today is actually much more loosely knit that what your comment implies. Much of the work being done to dismantle e.g. election counting systems, the covid apps etc comes from various corners of that community. Infiltrating the CCC would be akin to infiltrating Antifa. Sure, you can get close to a group and learn their secrets, but you can't get close to the center of it because it has none.

pizzapill 6y ago

> One notable difference is a much closer connection to e.g. intelligence services. Some CCC hackers had a pretty good relationship with the Russian KGB. They got information about a wide range of US military secrets including details about the Space Defense Initiative (SDI). They were so successful that they wound up dead and a movie was made about them. Since then the CCC has to be heavily infiltrated by all kinds of Intelligence Services.

pantalaimon 6y ago
> Since then the CCC has to be heavily infiltrated by all kinds of Intelligence Services. I think this more served as a cautionary tale to not get involved with this kind of agencies at all.
- pizzapill 6y ago
  I think the CCC has a strong ethos to not work for such agencies but I'm sure many members do it, either because they are agents or because of other incentives.
GekkePrutser 6y ago
Yes the Cuckoo's Egg by Clifford Stoll recounts this story well. However since then the CCC has been very honourable and I have nothing but respect for them.
black_puppydog 6y ago
At least the CCC of today is actually much more loosely knit that what your comment implies. Much of the work being done to dismantle e.g. election counting systems, the covid apps etc comes from various corners of that community. Infiltrating the CCC would be akin to infiltrating Antifa. Sure, you can get close to a group and learn their secrets, but you can't get close to the center of it because it has none.