4 ms·

I’ve heard this many times but do not know enough to say how big of a problem it is ecologically. I walk my cat on a leash (am on a walk now) and he is the fir

I’ve heard this many times but do not know enough to say how big of a problem it is ecologically. I walk my cat on a leash (am on a walk now) and he is the first cat I’ve not allowed outside on his own. Cat walking and the belief you’ve espoused is extremely decisive, but not for the reason you’ve said. Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal, because they will make time to monitor it. I’m certain it makes no sense that cats are allowed to roam free, no more than dogs. But it has taken many years for me to get to this position.

sosborn 6y ago
> I’ve heard this many times but do not know enough to say how big of a problem it is ecologically. https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/feral-cats/ https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/...
- bredren 6y ago
  Thanks for this. I suspect that much of the idea of “outdoor” cats as a thing has to do with tolerance of feral cat populations to begin with. Whereas wild dogs are too large and aggressive to tolerate.
nessus42 6y ago
> Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal This is untrue. I've owned both indoor cats and indoor/outdoor cats. Anyone who has seen the joy that a cat experiences while outdoors would never claim that a cat owner who wants their cat to experience this joy, "doesn't really care that much for the animal". Maybe an outdoor cat will live a shorter life than an indoor cat, but that hasn't been my personal experience. In fact, I had an outdoor cat that lived for 22 years. In any case, a shorter but happier life is not without its merits. The cat I currently have is an indoor-only cat, but she only rarely displays the kind of joy that my outdoor cats would routinely. As for walking her on a leash, I have tried, but she will not tolerate the harness, and will manage to escape from it if I persist.
- bredren 6y ago
  You are right that my phrasing was incorrect. I have rephrased this with more context in a reply to a sibling comment. I think you should reconsider harness training. It is normal for the cat to “act dead” at first and it takes time to get them used to a leash. Like months. But once they associate the harness with trips outside, the cat can have many of the experiences of “outdoor” cats without the territorial disputes, wildlife impact, pooping in your vegetable garden and not getting hit by a car. (Which is traumatic for the driver and passengers as well) I moderate /r/adventurecats on Reddit, I encourage you to look into training regimens people have there and see the joy people and their cat companions experience with outdoor experiences.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    The "outdoor experiences" my cats enjoy are not experiences they could have on a leash. Yes, they sometimes kill things; most commonly mice and shrews. The local rodent population seems resilient enough to cope. But the joy Catastrophe takes in racing up his favourite tree to look out over the neighbourhood, and chasing his tail around its branches, would rapidly end in a tangled mess if I tried to harness him. He's devoted and affectionate, strongly bonded with his humans. He also relishes his freedom, and I won't take it away from him.
    - bredren 6y ago
      It may sound strange but my cat does climb trees with his leash on. https://imgur.com/a/QMrC6d9 https://imgur.com/a/QMrC6d9 He’ll start running, and I’ll run with him, and he’ll scale it to the smallest branch that will support him. Sometimes he gets a bit tangled on the way down and I’ll have to unthread a bit. One time I had to toss the handle end over a branch. But most of the time he comes down the exact way he came up. He’s yet to fall from a tree but the harnesses he’s grown through are either breakaway or loose enough for him to pull out. In the unusual event of him pulling out of the harness, he will sometimes sprint around but is patient to let me approach and put it back on. It is very strange but a great connection with the animal. In general, “walking” a cat you do have to be deft with the leash, as they’ll weave more than dogs and don’t go in a straight line at all. I often find myself getting closer than I’d like to people’s parked cars but it’s not a big deal. They still get to play in bushes and do cat stuff hanging out. Mine is literally chilling in the depths rain garden right now. https://imgur.com/gallery/ETZ1KLt https://imgur.com/gallery/ETZ1KLt My cat does have a hunting instinct, and there are specific play activities we do to provide an outlet for that. It isn’t the life of a free roaming cat, it’s a compromise and it takes more time and energy. But it is really fun and long after the novelty has worn off people never get over seeing a cat walking down the street on a leash. I can see that it would be not easy to turn a free-folk cat into an “adventure cat,” though I know a person in the neighborhood who had to do this with an older cat because the vet said another fight and he’d be a goner. That brings up the question of protection and in this case he has kept the cat inside. The cat has adjusted. I’m glad for what you have with that cat. The point of my post is that I believe there are broad misconceptions of what is possible with cats. People don’t realize a lot of great life is out there when they are leash trained, (like dogs experience), and that this can limit the life of cats and have other impacts.
NanoCoaster 6y ago
> Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal, because they will make time to monitor it. I would never be able to walk my cat on a leash. No chance at all. I got her from a shelter and she's around 10-11 years of age (nobody quite knows, actually), I strongly suspect she's been without an owner for at least a few years. Meaning, she's a loner in general, incredibly stubborn, a little bit shy and very cautious when it comes to just me touching her outside of petting (and even that took months of getting used to me). Furthermore, there's no way I could keep her in my apartment for much longer than a few days. So I let her out on her own. Keeping her inside would make her unhappy pretty quickly - pets can and do get depressed in such cases - and probably also lead to her tearing through my furniture after a while :) Also, it's actually work for me to do this. Because of the way my apartment is set up, I can't have a cat door installed. So, I wait for her to return, sometimes until pretty late at night, because I don't want her to have to be outside for the night. Well, at least not when it's cold or raining out, she can deal pretty well with warm summer nights, as long as I put some food out. So, I think the assertion that owners who let their cats roam free therefore don't care about them as much...that just doesn't follow at all, imho. Now, about the potential ecological impact on the other hand, I'm not going to argue (even though I live in Germany and as far as I know, the situation is different here than in the US - but I'm not sure about that.).
- bredren 6y ago
  First, it’s great you took that animal in and I find no fault with the thing your doing. It is normal in this time. > Also, it's actually work for me to do this. This is the key point. It is work to give a cat outdoor experiences but not allow the cat to roam freely. The same goes for having a dog. But there is a general acceptance that the two animals should be treated completely differently. A wild dog would also not take well to indoor only life. However, the concept of adopting a feral dog is far less familiar because dogs are generally not allowed to roam cities unattended. (In the US at least) As for not caring about the animal, I need to clarify: They must care differently about that animal. It is more like the relationship between a farmer and farm animals than a companion relationship you might see dramatized in a cat food commercial. The reason I say that is because it is far more likely an “outdoor” cat will be eaten by a predator or hit by a car. The cat “owner” accepts letting the cat live it’s best life is more important than protecting it against these dangers that is a choice. So I suppose these folks care differently than other people, because the relationship is different.

sosborn 6y ago

> I’ve heard this many times but do not know enough to say how big of a problem it is ecologically. https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/feral-cats/ https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/...

bredren 6y ago
Thanks for this. I suspect that much of the idea of “outdoor” cats as a thing has to do with tolerance of feral cat populations to begin with. Whereas wild dogs are too large and aggressive to tolerate.

nessus42 6y ago

> Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal This is untrue. I've owned both indoor cats and indoor/outdoor cats. Anyone who has seen the joy that a cat experiences while outdoors would never claim that a cat owner who wants their cat to experience this joy, "doesn't really care that much for the animal". Maybe an outdoor cat will live a shorter life than an indoor cat, but that hasn't been my personal experience. In fact, I had an outdoor cat that lived for 22 years. In any case, a shorter but happier life is not without its merits. The cat I currently have is an indoor-only cat, but she only rarely displays the kind of joy that my outdoor cats would routinely. As for walking her on a leash, I have tried, but she will not tolerate the harness, and will manage to escape from it if I persist.

bredren 6y ago
You are right that my phrasing was incorrect. I have rephrased this with more context in a reply to a sibling comment. I think you should reconsider harness training. It is normal for the cat to “act dead” at first and it takes time to get them used to a leash. Like months. But once they associate the harness with trips outside, the cat can have many of the experiences of “outdoor” cats without the territorial disputes, wildlife impact, pooping in your vegetable garden and not getting hit by a car. (Which is traumatic for the driver and passengers as well) I moderate /r/adventurecats on Reddit, I encourage you to look into training regimens people have there and see the joy people and their cat companions experience with outdoor experiences.
- jfk13 6y ago
  The "outdoor experiences" my cats enjoy are not experiences they could have on a leash. Yes, they sometimes kill things; most commonly mice and shrews. The local rodent population seems resilient enough to cope. But the joy Catastrophe takes in racing up his favourite tree to look out over the neighbourhood, and chasing his tail around its branches, would rapidly end in a tangled mess if I tried to harness him. He's devoted and affectionate, strongly bonded with his humans. He also relishes his freedom, and I won't take it away from him.
  - bredren 6y ago
    It may sound strange but my cat does climb trees with his leash on. https://imgur.com/a/QMrC6d9 https://imgur.com/a/QMrC6d9 He’ll start running, and I’ll run with him, and he’ll scale it to the smallest branch that will support him. Sometimes he gets a bit tangled on the way down and I’ll have to unthread a bit. One time I had to toss the handle end over a branch. But most of the time he comes down the exact way he came up. He’s yet to fall from a tree but the harnesses he’s grown through are either breakaway or loose enough for him to pull out. In the unusual event of him pulling out of the harness, he will sometimes sprint around but is patient to let me approach and put it back on. It is very strange but a great connection with the animal. In general, “walking” a cat you do have to be deft with the leash, as they’ll weave more than dogs and don’t go in a straight line at all. I often find myself getting closer than I’d like to people’s parked cars but it’s not a big deal. They still get to play in bushes and do cat stuff hanging out. Mine is literally chilling in the depths rain garden right now. https://imgur.com/gallery/ETZ1KLt https://imgur.com/gallery/ETZ1KLt My cat does have a hunting instinct, and there are specific play activities we do to provide an outlet for that. It isn’t the life of a free roaming cat, it’s a compromise and it takes more time and energy. But it is really fun and long after the novelty has worn off people never get over seeing a cat walking down the street on a leash. I can see that it would be not easy to turn a free-folk cat into an “adventure cat,” though I know a person in the neighborhood who had to do this with an older cat because the vet said another fight and he’d be a goner. That brings up the question of protection and in this case he has kept the cat inside. The cat has adjusted. I’m glad for what you have with that cat. The point of my post is that I believe there are broad misconceptions of what is possible with cats. People don’t realize a lot of great life is out there when they are leash trained, (like dogs experience), and that this can limit the life of cats and have other impacts.

NanoCoaster 6y ago

> Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal, because they will make time to monitor it. I would never be able to walk my cat on a leash. No chance at all. I got her from a shelter and she's around 10-11 years of age (nobody quite knows, actually), I strongly suspect she's been without an owner for at least a few years. Meaning, she's a loner in general, incredibly stubborn, a little bit shy and very cautious when it comes to just me touching her outside of petting (and even that took months of getting used to me). Furthermore, there's no way I could keep her in my apartment for much longer than a few days. So I let her out on her own. Keeping her inside would make her unhappy pretty quickly - pets can and do get depressed in such cases - and probably also lead to her tearing through my furniture after a while :) Also, it's actually work for me to do this. Because of the way my apartment is set up, I can't have a cat door installed. So, I wait for her to return, sometimes until pretty late at night, because I don't want her to have to be outside for the night. Well, at least not when it's cold or raining out, she can deal pretty well with warm summer nights, as long as I put some food out. So, I think the assertion that owners who let their cats roam free therefore don't care about them as much...that just doesn't follow at all, imho. Now, about the potential ecological impact on the other hand, I'm not going to argue (even though I live in Germany and as far as I know, the situation is different here than in the US - but I'm not sure about that.).

bredren 6y ago
First, it’s great you took that animal in and I find no fault with the thing your doing. It is normal in this time. > Also, it's actually work for me to do this. This is the key point. It is work to give a cat outdoor experiences but not allow the cat to roam freely. The same goes for having a dog. But there is a general acceptance that the two animals should be treated completely differently. A wild dog would also not take well to indoor only life. However, the concept of adopting a feral dog is far less familiar because dogs are generally not allowed to roam cities unattended. (In the US at least) As for not caring about the animal, I need to clarify: They must care differently about that animal. It is more like the relationship between a farmer and farm animals than a companion relationship you might see dramatized in a cat food commercial. The reason I say that is because it is far more likely an “outdoor” cat will be eaten by a predator or hit by a car. The cat “owner” accepts letting the cat live it’s best life is more important than protecting it against these dangers that is a choice. So I suppose these folks care differently than other people, because the relationship is different.