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> I run a website with no trackers, no ads, nothing at all to do with Google or any other company in any way. Then your site will not be included in FLoC: "A p

by jefftk 6y ago

> I run a website with no trackers, no ads, nothing at all to do with Google or any other company in any way. Then your site will not be included in FLoC: "A page visit will be included in the browser's FLoC calculation if document.interestCohort() is used on the page. During the current FLoC origin trial, a page will also be included in the calculation if Chrome detects that the page load ads or ads-related resources." -- https://web.dev/floc/ https://web.dev/floc/ (Disclosure: I work for Google, speaking only for myself)

dannyw 6y ago
Thanks. I hate FLoC, but accurate facts need to get to the top.
_Understated_ 6y ago
Thanks for the clarification. It appears I can't edit my original comment to add in a mea culpa! No idea how I managed to get it so far off the mark there... :( For anyone reading this, downvote my original comment up the top please to get it off the top as it's inaccurate: I know it's cool to bash Google on here but my original assumption was waaaaaay off.
whoopdedo 6y ago
That "During the current FLoC origin trial" bit scares me though. Why should I assume the scope of implicit inclusion in FLoC won't be expanded in the future? I don't exactly trust this opt-out header. The spec makes it sound like it's not so much a request to the user agent not to use cohorts in general. Rather it's a security-in-depth measure to prevent third-party scripts or injected spyware from exploiting certain functions. So those functions are disabled for resources loaded from that domain. Chrome, meanwhile, can still do whatever it likes.
- jefftk 6y ago
  > That "During the current FLoC origin trial" bit scares me though. Why should I assume the scope of implicit inclusion in FLoC won't be expanded in the future? It's the other way around: it's saying that normally "a page visit will be included in the browser's FLoC calculation if document.interestCohort() is used on the page" but to support this specific origin trial it will also include pages "if Chrome detects that the page load ads or ads-related resources". This is needed to avoid the chicken and egg problem that you would otherwise have in a proof-of-concept experiment.
  - spondyl 6y ago
    Hi Jeff, While I don't like ads, and so by association I blindly don't like FLoC or cookies, I've been following your comments via RSS out of interest and I'd like to say thanks for always popping up in these threads to untangle some of the misconceptions (from your point of view). That doesn't necessarily mean that I, or others, trust what Google, as a business, might do tomorrow compared to what it says today but given how little the wider world tends to hear from Google (that isn't editorialised in some sense), it's nice to see Google employees engaging on Hacker News :)
    - jefftk 6y ago
      Thanks!
glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago
> Then your site will not be included in FLoC caveat 1: extensions. And if one user runs an extension on your site, that triggers inclusion on FLoC, who knows how the domain will be classified in the near future or for other users without any extension? caveat 2: google simply deciding to change the algo. Or running silent experiments, such as they one running now to try FLoC. Or would anyone here bet $1 on google keeping terms/services around? caveat 3: the use of condescendingly misleading terms on the official FAQ. E.g. to define the item FLoC works on page/site "A page visit will be included" vs "Websites will have the ability to opt in or out" (no mention of accepted, non-ambiguous, factual terms like url, domain, origin, etc); And yes, I am biased against FLoC because it is a very low effort to abuse browser monopoly to keep a business that nobody likes. I will just end this rant with my favorite quote from google announcement: "FLoC service will evaluate whether a cohort may reveal sensitive information about users without learning why that cohort is sensitive".
aledalgrande 6y ago
Accurate, but not set in stone. Google owns Chrome, so they could decide to make it opt-out in the future.
vineyardmike 6y ago
> if Chrome detects that the page load ads or ads-related resources how does it make this decision?
- jefftk 6y ago
  It uses a filter based on EasyList: https://github.com/chromium/chromium-ads-detection/blob/master/third_party/filter_lists/9.22.0/filter_list https://github.com/chromium/chromium-ads-detection/blob/mast...

by jefftk 6y ago

dannyw 6y ago

Thanks. I hate FLoC, but accurate facts need to get to the top.

_Understated_ 6y ago

Thanks for the clarification. It appears I can't edit my original comment to add in a mea culpa! No idea how I managed to get it so far off the mark there... :( For anyone reading this, downvote my original comment up the top please to get it off the top as it's inaccurate: I know it's cool to bash Google on here but my original assumption was waaaaaay off.

whoopdedo 6y ago

That "During the current FLoC origin trial" bit scares me though. Why should I assume the scope of implicit inclusion in FLoC won't be expanded in the future? I don't exactly trust this opt-out header. The spec makes it sound like it's not so much a request to the user agent not to use cohorts in general. Rather it's a security-in-depth measure to prevent third-party scripts or injected spyware from exploiting certain functions. So those functions are disabled for resources loaded from that domain. Chrome, meanwhile, can still do whatever it likes.

jefftk 6y ago
> That "During the current FLoC origin trial" bit scares me though. Why should I assume the scope of implicit inclusion in FLoC won't be expanded in the future? It's the other way around: it's saying that normally "a page visit will be included in the browser's FLoC calculation if document.interestCohort() is used on the page" but to support this specific origin trial it will also include pages "if Chrome detects that the page load ads or ads-related resources". This is needed to avoid the chicken and egg problem that you would otherwise have in a proof-of-concept experiment.
- spondyl 6y ago
  Hi Jeff, While I don't like ads, and so by association I blindly don't like FLoC or cookies, I've been following your comments via RSS out of interest and I'd like to say thanks for always popping up in these threads to untangle some of the misconceptions (from your point of view). That doesn't necessarily mean that I, or others, trust what Google, as a business, might do tomorrow compared to what it says today but given how little the wider world tends to hear from Google (that isn't editorialised in some sense), it's nice to see Google employees engaging on Hacker News :)
  - jefftk 6y ago
    Thanks!

glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago

> Then your site will not be included in FLoC caveat 1: extensions. And if one user runs an extension on your site, that triggers inclusion on FLoC, who knows how the domain will be classified in the near future or for other users without any extension? caveat 2: google simply deciding to change the algo. Or running silent experiments, such as they one running now to try FLoC. Or would anyone here bet $1 on google keeping terms/services around? caveat 3: the use of condescendingly misleading terms on the official FAQ. E.g. to define the item FLoC works on page/site "A page visit will be included" vs "Websites will have the ability to opt in or out" (no mention of accepted, non-ambiguous, factual terms like url, domain, origin, etc); And yes, I am biased against FLoC because it is a very low effort to abuse browser monopoly to keep a business that nobody likes. I will just end this rant with my favorite quote from google announcement: "FLoC service will evaluate whether a cohort may reveal sensitive information about users without learning why that cohort is sensitive".

aledalgrande 6y ago

Accurate, but not set in stone. Google owns Chrome, so they could decide to make it opt-out in the future.

vineyardmike 6y ago

> if Chrome detects that the page load ads or ads-related resources how does it make this decision?

jefftk 6y ago
It uses a filter based on EasyList: https://github.com/chromium/chromium-ads-detection/blob/master/third_party/filter_lists/9.22.0/filter_list https://github.com/chromium/chromium-ads-detection/blob/mast...