5 ms·
What's the oldest protocol that's still regularly used?
by goda90 6y ago
What's the oldest protocol that's still regularly used?
- zabzonk 6y agoXON/XOFF?
- alex_anglin 6y agoSnail-mail ain't dead yet.
- moron4hire 6y agoI believe Semaphore predates it
- selfhoster11 6y agoHow so? Mail couriers are surely much older than semaphore systems of any kind.
- KozmoNau7 6y agoThat depends on how you define "protocol". ASCII dates from 1963, and that's still the baseline for text-based protocols. FTP predates Ethernet, Token Ring and ARCNET. It predates TCP/IP. For an actual protocol, and not just a simple format specification like ASCII, it doesn't get older than that in current use.
- 77pt77 6y agoMorse would be older.
- crazypython 6y agoASCII is a very obvious format. If you take the english alphabet and symbols, it fits almost perfectly in the first 7 bits. In 5th grade I tried encoding English in binary, and noticed how I accidentally reinvented ASCII.
- vagrantJin 6y agoEncode English in Binary in 5th grade? You must be a smart cookie. In 5th grade, I had the attention span of a fruit fly. Probably would have tried drawing phalluses in ascii if I had known about it.
- 0x0 6y agoI wouldn't say it's obvious. There's some careful decisions in the design that might not be obvious at first sight, such as having upper and lowercase characters be the same save for a single bit.
- unilynx 6y agoOr the numbers 0 to 9 at 48 to 57 (ie just mask out bits 4 and 5)
- crazypython 6y agoI see. I would retract my statement if HN let me edit.
- stjohnswarts 6y agoRetract it at the bottom where it is least likely to be seen like we do in modern papers/news sites.
- pavlov 6y agoIBM z/OS (né OS/360) is 57 years old and still actively developed, so maybe something used there?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- coldpie 6y agoInteresting question and I guess it depends what you mean by "protocol"[1]. If simple characters-over-the-wire counts, then ASCII was developed throughout 60s and was itself derived from much older telegraph standards. Teletype is arguably more of a "protocol" and is actually even older, going back to the 50s, and arguably the 30s in some form, and still forms the basis of all terminal computing today including (especially) across networks. [1] Sometimes it seems like every interesting discussion boils down to definitions, doesn't it?
- ajb 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
- jswrenn 6y agoHa, I was like "REALLY!?!?" before actually clicking the link. I was thinking of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth_Single_Sign-on_architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth_Single_Sign-on_arch... ...which is an unlikely contender for oldest protocol!
- ajb 6y agoYou can consider it a successor protocol :-)
- tpmx 6y agoPerhaps the oldest protocol for automated (in terms of encoding/decoding) text communication that's still being regularly used? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudot_code#ITA2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudot_code#ITA2 > In 1924, the CCITT introduced the International Telegraph Alphabet No. 2 (ITA2) code[14] as an international standard, which was based on the Western Union code with some minor changes. > ITA2 is still used in telecommunications devices for the deaf (TDD), Telex, and some amateur radio applications, such as radioteletype ("RTTY"). It's interesting that the fundamentals of this were invented in 1870s. Who needs semiconductors when you have gears and levers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Émile_Baudot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Émile_Baudot
- peter303 6y agoBritish naval signal and letter flags codified 1817. Morse code from 1840s. Ham radio still uses it when signal took weak fir voice. Proficiency was required for a ham license until 2006.
- CydeWeys 6y agoMorse may not be the oldest but my bet is on it being by far the most widely still used of anything nearly two centuries old. I got into ham radio a decade ago and learned Morse (poorly) just because. It already wasn't a requirement, but so many still use it.
- stjohnswarts 6y agoHopefully there's an app for listening to it and interpreting it? I bet those old timers get pretty fast with the Morse
- js2 6y agoIn my college comp-sci networking class, one of our projects was to figure out a system for sending messages visually between two parties spaced 100 yards (91 meters) apart as quickly as possible. Each team of four came up with their own signaling method, trying to balance how many bits were transmitted with each symbol with how quickly we could encode/decode the message. Binoculars were not allowed. We were outside, so we didn't know how windy it would be. I seem to recall on my team, we were sending two bits per symbol. I think it was just a large cardboard box, we colored each of the four flaps visually distinct, then unfolded one of the flaps for each symbol. I don't recall a single team thinking to re-purpose naval flags. Duh.
- Joker_vD 6y agoThere is also flag semaphore which is very fast and very recognizable and gives you about 5 bits per signal.
- alexhutcheson 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_semaphore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_semaphore would have been good if you needed to send arbitrary text. Naval flags would be higher bandwidth if you could pre-arrange a modest-sized dictionary of the words and phrases you’d need. https://www.navalgazing.net/Signalling-Part-1 https://www.navalgazing.net/Signalling-Part-1 is a good read.
- h2odragon 6y ago100V DC T1 lines still exist, I'm told
- tyingq 6y agoIf we're limiting it to "used by computers", and "actually used in some meaningful non-hobby volume" maybe the T1/DS1 TDMA protocol? That dates back to 1962. Or maybe morse code counts as a protocol?, Still around in VOR (VHF omnidirectional range) and NDB (Non-directional beacon) in the aviation world.
- axiolite 6y agoRS-232 (1960) is still going strong.
- rsync 6y ago"What's the oldest protocol that's still regularly used?" People are answering with old telephone codes and British naval signals, etc. You should be thinking: - The muslim call to prayers. - The affirmation of faith, as it is spoken in mass or (protestant) church ... or the first and second readings, followed by a Gospel reading. - The Jewish rite of circumcision (which is, among other things, almost certainly a signaling mechanism).
- tpmx 6y agoIf we're abandoning automation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_(diplomacy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_(diplomacy) > The term protocol is derived, via French and Medieval Latin, from the Greek word πρωτόκολλον protokollon "first glued sheet of or onto a papyrus-roll". > The rules of protocol to create space where meetings can take place. https://www.protocol.dubai.ae/About/Protocol-History https://www.protocol.dubai.ae/About/Protocol-History > The diplomatic relations that existed between Egypt and Babel, which started in 1450 B.C., included highlights on the application of standards for Protocol and Etiquette that were related to both diplomatic immunities as well as receptions and ceremonies.
- stjohnswarts 6y agoI would hate to be involved with any generic means of communication that required circumcisions to impart information. That sounds like a rather gory way to tell my wife I'll be late for dinner.
- Talanes 6y agoBut it was a great way to tell your wife not to make pork for dinner. At least until it caught on beyond the intended market.
- fanf2 6y agoDTMF “touch tone” telephone dialling dates from 1963