5 ms·

Again, how does this harm consumers?

baq 5y ago
it's in the title?
arcticfox 5y ago
As one example, I used to sell textbooks on Amazon. Our account would be suspended at ANY report of potential issues with a book, despite a 98%+ positive feedback rating. It was a constant battle against the platform, despite doing everything under the sun to ensure our customers had a perfect experience. Meanwhile, Amazon Warehouse was slinging hot garbage and getting constant negative feedbacks (80% positive range) and they never got suspended. Amazon Warehouse even cancelled a massive number of their own negative feedbacks by blaming Amazon Prime for things that had nothing to do with shipping. We were undercutting Amazon on price for a long time, but in the end we threw in the towel because it was just an impossible marketplace to participate in. Interestingly there was another textbook seller that had a similar experience that got their testimony read to Bezos by Congress. https://www.theverge.com/21349440/amazon-marketplace-third-party-sellers-antitrust-hearing-jeff-bezos https://www.theverge.com/21349440/amazon-marketplace-third-p...
fakedang 5y ago
Smaller businesses get eaten up, resulting in a bigger Amazon with greater monopoly powers, that harms consumers with shittier goods and less choice.
pydry 5y ago
Amazon squashes competitors and raises prices or reduces quality/costs safe in the knowledge that consumers have few alternatives. It's weird asking "how does killing off the competition hurt consumers?" when literally all economic growth depends upon it.
Bjartr 5y ago
What are some examples of behavior you would accept as being actual harm to consumers?
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Under the Bork standard, to which skystarman is alluding, rising price is the only concern. "Consumer harm" doctrine. This was invented from whole cloth by Robert Bork, Richard Posner, and Aaron Director, at the University of Chicago, as part of a decades-long project and organisation to redraft US antitrust policy. It was devastatingly effective. It also has little if any basis in the legislative rationale of original antitrust legislation in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antitrust_Paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antitrust_Paradox
  - Bjartr 5y ago
    Thanks for clarifying! That "consumer harm" is a term of art here, and not a catch-all for all downsides the consumer experiences is exactly the kind of confusion I was hoping to clear up.
- Bjartr 5y ago
  I apologize to whoever I apparently offended by being curious.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
By destroying competing businesses and reducing consumer choice, isnt it obvious?
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  But just offering better service for a lower price destroys competiting businesses. There is a reason competitor harm wasn't the standard for anti-trust despite it being about competition between companies.

baq 5y ago

it's in the title?

As one example, I used to sell textbooks on Amazon. Our account would be suspended at ANY report of potential issues with a book, despite a 98%+ positive feedback rating. It was a constant battle against the platform, despite doing everything under the sun to ensure our customers had a perfect experience. Meanwhile, Amazon Warehouse was slinging hot garbage and getting constant negative feedbacks (80% positive range) and they never got suspended. Amazon Warehouse even cancelled a massive number of their own negative feedbacks by blaming Amazon Prime for things that had nothing to do with shipping. We were undercutting Amazon on price for a long time, but in the end we threw in the towel because it was just an impossible marketplace to participate in. Interestingly there was another textbook seller that had a similar experience that got their testimony read to Bezos by Congress. https://www.theverge.com/21349440/amazon-marketplace-third-party-sellers-antitrust-hearing-jeff-bezos https://www.theverge.com/21349440/amazon-marketplace-third-p...

fakedang 5y ago

Smaller businesses get eaten up, resulting in a bigger Amazon with greater monopoly powers, that harms consumers with shittier goods and less choice.

pydry 5y ago

Amazon squashes competitors and raises prices or reduces quality/costs safe in the knowledge that consumers have few alternatives. It's weird asking "how does killing off the competition hurt consumers?" when literally all economic growth depends upon it.

Bjartr 5y ago

What are some examples of behavior you would accept as being actual harm to consumers?

dredmorbius 5y ago
Under the Bork standard, to which skystarman is alluding, rising price is the only concern. "Consumer harm" doctrine. This was invented from whole cloth by Robert Bork, Richard Posner, and Aaron Director, at the University of Chicago, as part of a decades-long project and organisation to redraft US antitrust policy. It was devastatingly effective. It also has little if any basis in the legislative rationale of original antitrust legislation in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antitrust_Paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antitrust_Paradox
- Bjartr 5y ago
  Thanks for clarifying! That "consumer harm" is a term of art here, and not a catch-all for all downsides the consumer experiences is exactly the kind of confusion I was hoping to clear up.
Bjartr 5y ago
I apologize to whoever I apparently offended by being curious.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

By destroying competing businesses and reducing consumer choice, isnt it obvious?

Nasrudith 5y ago
But just offering better service for a lower price destroys competiting businesses. There is a reason competitor harm wasn't the standard for anti-trust despite it being about competition between companies.