6 ms·

Well, shit. I've definitely been misled by this exact thing. Fuck Google.

wlesieutre 6y ago
Fun fact: if you turn off "Web & App Activity" tracking, Google won't let you set a Home or Work address in Maps! https://twitter.com/jonathanmayer/status/1044300922149588993 https://twitter.com/jonathanmayer/status/1044300922149588993 https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3093979 https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3093979 > Fix problems with home and work in Maps > To use home and work when you search or use directions, you must turn on Web & App Activity. If can't find home and work in Maps, learn how to turn on Web & App Activity.
- GoOnThenDoTell 6y ago
  I was always annoyed by that, it feels like low level malicious compliance: “see? not storing anything, anything at all”
  - Cerium 6y ago
    Indded it feels like that. It's like you are paying with your data and here is where you choose the plan you want. Oh, you don't want the pro plan but would rather the free plan? It has less features.
    - laurent92 6y ago
      Are you sure you want Google to have definitive answers for “Work” and “Home”? I know they already infer it by tracking overnight location; but - When I type “Ho” in GMaps it will first suggest all businesses — “Ho... Home Depot? House Garden? Horror House (375km)?” then cities (“Ho... Chi Minh City, Vietnam?”) and, after many tries, “Home”, the real. - I had Web Activity and Location History registered, in France but English with a address for “Home”, - I was using it for every return trip; They could have suggested by default without typing anything; Clearly they optimize to promote businesses or other usecases first, not convenience. - I ended up putting a Label “XKDJF” on my home, which is more convenient (until a city starts with “XK” – hoping Elon Musk will not name a city on Mars this year).
      - wlesieutre 6y ago
        > Are you sure you want Google to have definitive answers for “Work” and “Home”? I know they already infer it by tracking overnight location; but I would say the root problem is that supplying any information to a Google app is by default assumed to mean "This should be uploaded to a persistent profile of user data." They could just let me set a Home and Work location on my phone and leave that data on my phone (regardless of tracking preferences), or they could store it in a more private mechanism with a key that lives on your device (see Chrome bookmark sync), but they choose to not do any of that.
- mediumdeviation 6y ago
  Another fun limitation - apparently for my Pixel phone to remember I prefer my temperature in Celsius, Google also needs "Web & App Activity" tracking. In other words Google wants my whole location history when using Google apps just to remember my preferred units.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I doubt this is some malicious compliance thing and more that they don't want to do per-device settings basically ever.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - ruined 6y ago
      yeah i'm sure they have some technical justification for it but i know it's trivial so why should i care? it's an intentional refusal
  - foobiekr 6y ago
    I have worked for some insanely political companies and this just made me laugh. That’s a genius application of a dark pattern/malicious compliance “nudge.” I hate that companies that work this way are some of the biggest and most powerful on the planet, but it’s also darkly funny if your humor runs to Kafka or Dante...
    - wsinks 6y ago
      And because I've been watching a lot of FFVI lately, if your humor runs to Kefka... /low brow comment
- Jordrok 6y ago
  Yeah, I really hate that. One workaround is to temporarily turn on the setting, set your home and work locations, then immediately turn it back off again. It will keep the locations and allow you to use them, you just can't change them unless you turn the Web & App activity setting back on again.
- FigmentEngine 6y ago
  and so i type me home postcode every time i do a route - and it reminds me its' my data and not google'$.
bushbaba 6y ago
Google has really adopted the worst of Microsoft. And Microsoft adopted the best of google.
- greyhair 6y ago
  Which is why I wish Microsoft would release an updated Windows Phone 10. I know it never captured "mind share", but find someone that actually used Windows Phone for over a year as their main phone, and ask them how it was. My son and I each had Nokia phones running Windows phone, as "insiders" updated to Windows Phone 10. The UI was actually quite nice. The lack of apps is what hurt it, though Here maps was pretty good.
  - 1_person 6y ago
    Windows Mobile was the pinnacle of the smartphone experience. The release of the iPhone imo was the Eternal September of the mobile experience in so far as it was the tipping point wherein a demographic of users who didn't even need to be convinced that yielding full and openly adversarial control over the hardware to the network operators and advertisers became an uncontested majority. They came with a text editor, a calculator, and a file browser out of the box -- can this generation even imagine not having to run the app store gauntlet of monetization and fraud to Open Files, I wonder?
    - jodrellblank 6y ago
      What use cases does "opening files" have which isn't addressed by iPhone's built-in apps and at the same time doesn't involve any risk of using a random third party app that has to be sourced from somewhere like an app store?
      - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
        A file system isn't the greatest design from a security standpoint, but the Apple model is particularly limiting if, for instance, you want a library of data to be available to one app, and then later available to another app. You'll notice the iPhone cheats in this regard, by providing generic system libraries for photos and contacts, but if you say, have an ebook library, and want to switch reader apps, you'll have a bad time. It would probably be better to have a system of secure file buckets, where you could create them arbitrarily and choose to allow access to any bucket to any app, rather than permit open access to the file system as Android traditionally has done.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
The google agreement seems to break the "reasonable person" aspect of laws that I learned in college. It's not reasonable to have more than one place to shut off geolocation/tracking and the court decided this in the obvious way. Google should be fined heavily for such evil bait-and-switch tactics. Not only are they not avoiding "evil" they're embracing it the past decade or so.
aagha 6y ago
This is one of the kinds of things that happens when you remove "Don't be evil" from your mission.

Fun fact: if you turn off "Web & App Activity" tracking, Google won't let you set a Home or Work address in Maps! https://twitter.com/jonathanmayer/status/1044300922149588993 https://twitter.com/jonathanmayer/status/1044300922149588993 https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3093979 https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3093979 > Fix problems with home and work in Maps > To use home and work when you search or use directions, you must turn on Web & App Activity. If can't find home and work in Maps, learn how to turn on Web & App Activity.

GoOnThenDoTell 6y ago
I was always annoyed by that, it feels like low level malicious compliance: “see? not storing anything, anything at all”
- Cerium 6y ago
  Indded it feels like that. It's like you are paying with your data and here is where you choose the plan you want. Oh, you don't want the pro plan but would rather the free plan? It has less features.
  - laurent92 6y ago
    Are you sure you want Google to have definitive answers for “Work” and “Home”? I know they already infer it by tracking overnight location; but - When I type “Ho” in GMaps it will first suggest all businesses — “Ho... Home Depot? House Garden? Horror House (375km)?” then cities (“Ho... Chi Minh City, Vietnam?”) and, after many tries, “Home”, the real. - I had Web Activity and Location History registered, in France but English with a address for “Home”, - I was using it for every return trip; They could have suggested by default without typing anything; Clearly they optimize to promote businesses or other usecases first, not convenience. - I ended up putting a Label “XKDJF” on my home, which is more convenient (until a city starts with “XK” – hoping Elon Musk will not name a city on Mars this year).
    - wlesieutre 6y ago
      > Are you sure you want Google to have definitive answers for “Work” and “Home”? I know they already infer it by tracking overnight location; but I would say the root problem is that supplying any information to a Google app is by default assumed to mean "This should be uploaded to a persistent profile of user data." They could just let me set a Home and Work location on my phone and leave that data on my phone (regardless of tracking preferences), or they could store it in a more private mechanism with a key that lives on your device (see Chrome bookmark sync), but they choose to not do any of that.
mediumdeviation 6y ago
Another fun limitation - apparently for my Pixel phone to remember I prefer my temperature in Celsius, Google also needs "Web & App Activity" tracking. In other words Google wants my whole location history when using Google apps just to remember my preferred units.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I doubt this is some malicious compliance thing and more that they don't want to do per-device settings basically ever.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ruined 6y ago
    yeah i'm sure they have some technical justification for it but i know it's trivial so why should i care? it's an intentional refusal
- foobiekr 6y ago
  I have worked for some insanely political companies and this just made me laugh. That’s a genius application of a dark pattern/malicious compliance “nudge.” I hate that companies that work this way are some of the biggest and most powerful on the planet, but it’s also darkly funny if your humor runs to Kafka or Dante...
  - wsinks 6y ago
    And because I've been watching a lot of FFVI lately, if your humor runs to Kefka... /low brow comment
Jordrok 6y ago
Yeah, I really hate that. One workaround is to temporarily turn on the setting, set your home and work locations, then immediately turn it back off again. It will keep the locations and allow you to use them, you just can't change them unless you turn the Web & App activity setting back on again.
FigmentEngine 6y ago
and so i type me home postcode every time i do a route - and it reminds me its' my data and not google'$.

bushbaba 6y ago

Google has really adopted the worst of Microsoft. And Microsoft adopted the best of google.

greyhair 6y ago
Which is why I wish Microsoft would release an updated Windows Phone 10. I know it never captured "mind share", but find someone that actually used Windows Phone for over a year as their main phone, and ask them how it was. My son and I each had Nokia phones running Windows phone, as "insiders" updated to Windows Phone 10. The UI was actually quite nice. The lack of apps is what hurt it, though Here maps was pretty good.
- 1_person 6y ago
  Windows Mobile was the pinnacle of the smartphone experience. The release of the iPhone imo was the Eternal September of the mobile experience in so far as it was the tipping point wherein a demographic of users who didn't even need to be convinced that yielding full and openly adversarial control over the hardware to the network operators and advertisers became an uncontested majority. They came with a text editor, a calculator, and a file browser out of the box -- can this generation even imagine not having to run the app store gauntlet of monetization and fraud to Open Files, I wonder?
  - jodrellblank 6y ago
    What use cases does "opening files" have which isn't addressed by iPhone's built-in apps and at the same time doesn't involve any risk of using a random third party app that has to be sourced from somewhere like an app store?
    - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      A file system isn't the greatest design from a security standpoint, but the Apple model is particularly limiting if, for instance, you want a library of data to be available to one app, and then later available to another app. You'll notice the iPhone cheats in this regard, by providing generic system libraries for photos and contacts, but if you say, have an ebook library, and want to switch reader apps, you'll have a bad time. It would probably be better to have a system of secure file buckets, where you could create them arbitrarily and choose to allow access to any bucket to any app, rather than permit open access to the file system as Android traditionally has done.

stjohnswarts 6y ago

The google agreement seems to break the "reasonable person" aspect of laws that I learned in college. It's not reasonable to have more than one place to shut off geolocation/tracking and the court decided this in the obvious way. Google should be fined heavily for such evil bait-and-switch tactics. Not only are they not avoiding "evil" they're embracing it the past decade or so.

aagha 6y ago

This is one of the kinds of things that happens when you remove "Don't be evil" from your mission.