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For those HNers wondering the significance of this page, a leitmotif is a "ringtone" for every character or event accompanied on a staged drama. Wagner's usage

For those HNers wondering the significance of this page, a leitmotif is a "ringtone" for every character or event accompanied on a staged drama. Wagner's usage of leitmotifs in the Ring was very influential to the development of stage music, later film music. The influence is especially present in the Star Wars score. You know how Darth Vader's theme plays when he enters the scene? John Williams took hint from Wagner to assign tunes to each character.

larusso 6y ago
My other favorite example in Film is The Lord of the Rings. Especially in the first movie with the theme for the fellowship. It starts out as some single French horns and becomes this great theme when the complete fellowship walks the iconic scene over the mountains towards Moria. Then in Moria we hear it the last time played in full when it abruptly stopps. After Gandalf fell so does the theme. It’s beautiful done.
- r2222 6y ago
  Yeah it’s pretty much perfect. You hear it from the first seconds: Galadriel/Lothlorien theme as the the voiceover starts over black screen, turns into the ring theme as the title card appears, and changing into the lighter Shire theme when she talks about it, waving different themes into each other, after finally ending in Fellowship theme as the title ‘Fellowship of the Ring’ appears. Even after Boromir’s death you hear a sad and dark hint of the Fellowship theme as it fades away into the moment the fellowship truly breaks and Frodo decides to leave on his own. Imagine my disappointment when they used the Nazgul theme in the Hobbit, in the final warg/orc fight scene. Just threw it all away because it’s something that sounds ominous.
  - larusso 6y ago
    Yeah because they had to throw that scene in and they had no music for it. If I remember correctly it was 2 minutes of movie means 2 weeks of sound work. Or something like that. And the hobbit was plagued with issues from the very start. I still like the soundtrack from the hobbit but it didn’t follow the leitmotif as much. When listening to it while working I have no idea where in the story the music belongs to. That is different with Lord of the Rings.
    - r2222 6y ago
      Yes it sure feels like that too. I like Hobbit music too, like how Misty Mountains Cold song is sung by dwarves at the start and it then develops into a full-blown hero theme later. It’s just they kinda overuse in not-so-impactful scenes and it loses its … well, impact.
      - larusso 6y ago
        My favorite theme/tune is in the song the Forest River from the extended soundtrack of part two. It only plays very shortly and comes back every now and then later in another track. It wasn’t in the first movie so I assume it belongs to Legolas or his girlfriend ;) but I’m not sure.
fredrikholm 6y ago
To expand on this, Wagner's ability to combine variations of different motifs in different modes enabled him to construct sentences, if not entire chapters of plot and story by music alone. It's in part one of the reasons why Wagner's music is sometimes seen as impenetrable, as it demands a lot from you as a listener. This line of thinking is exemplified in this (purported) quote by Stravinsky: To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. Where this ability to listen is something that is developed gradually either via osmosis or study, which is one of the reasons why listeners of classical/jazz tend to be musicians and/or elderly people.
- Freak_NL 6y ago
  > […] which is one of the reasons why listeners of classical/jazz tend to be musicians and/or elderly people. That seems a stretch. Both classical music and jazz have a very wide appeal. Classical music sometimes carries the populistic stigma of being only for old folk or the elite, but that does not reflect its actual listenership. If anything, streaming music has made classical music more accessible — at least at an entry level of the more popular pieces. Listeners of the Ring cycle may very well be a much more exclusive club (this goes for opera in general), but classical music is part of many people's lives (my two year old son digs Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf).
  - fredrikholm 6y ago
    I'm happy that you have a different experience (and that your son likes a classical piece), perhaps it's dependent on location and culture? I sang classical (opera, church choir) for just over ten years, and spent a lot of time with other musicians and attended many of their performances. When it came to classical, jazz or blues it was nearly always a vast majority of musicians and elderly in the crowd, with the occasional families with small children hanging around for a few minutes when the events were public/free/outdoor. For context, I am in my early thirties and live in Sweden (including Copenhagen here as well due to proximity).
    - Freak_NL 6y ago
ArtWomb 6y ago
>>> You know how Darth Vader's theme plays when he enters the scene? Before Vader's theme, was Williams' Oscar-winning Jaws. Two notes. Unforgettable dread every time you venture into the ocean. Not to mention the birth of the Hollywood summer blockbuster phenomenon ;) https://csosoundsandstories.org/two-notes-that-changed-the-film-world-john-williams-theme-for-jaws/ https://csosoundsandstories.org/two-notes-that-changed-the-f...

larusso 6y ago

My other favorite example in Film is The Lord of the Rings. Especially in the first movie with the theme for the fellowship. It starts out as some single French horns and becomes this great theme when the complete fellowship walks the iconic scene over the mountains towards Moria. Then in Moria we hear it the last time played in full when it abruptly stopps. After Gandalf fell so does the theme. It’s beautiful done.

r2222 6y ago
Yeah it’s pretty much perfect. You hear it from the first seconds: Galadriel/Lothlorien theme as the the voiceover starts over black screen, turns into the ring theme as the title card appears, and changing into the lighter Shire theme when she talks about it, waving different themes into each other, after finally ending in Fellowship theme as the title ‘Fellowship of the Ring’ appears. Even after Boromir’s death you hear a sad and dark hint of the Fellowship theme as it fades away into the moment the fellowship truly breaks and Frodo decides to leave on his own. Imagine my disappointment when they used the Nazgul theme in the Hobbit, in the final warg/orc fight scene. Just threw it all away because it’s something that sounds ominous.
- larusso 6y ago
  Yeah because they had to throw that scene in and they had no music for it. If I remember correctly it was 2 minutes of movie means 2 weeks of sound work. Or something like that. And the hobbit was plagued with issues from the very start. I still like the soundtrack from the hobbit but it didn’t follow the leitmotif as much. When listening to it while working I have no idea where in the story the music belongs to. That is different with Lord of the Rings.
  - r2222 6y ago
    Yes it sure feels like that too. I like Hobbit music too, like how Misty Mountains Cold song is sung by dwarves at the start and it then develops into a full-blown hero theme later. It’s just they kinda overuse in not-so-impactful scenes and it loses its … well, impact.
    - larusso 6y ago
      My favorite theme/tune is in the song the Forest River from the extended soundtrack of part two. It only plays very shortly and comes back every now and then later in another track. It wasn’t in the first movie so I assume it belongs to Legolas or his girlfriend ;) but I’m not sure.

fredrikholm 6y ago

To expand on this, Wagner's ability to combine variations of different motifs in different modes enabled him to construct sentences, if not entire chapters of plot and story by music alone. It's in part one of the reasons why Wagner's music is sometimes seen as impenetrable, as it demands a lot from you as a listener. This line of thinking is exemplified in this (purported) quote by Stravinsky: To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. Where this ability to listen is something that is developed gradually either via osmosis or study, which is one of the reasons why listeners of classical/jazz tend to be musicians and/or elderly people.

Freak_NL 6y ago
> […] which is one of the reasons why listeners of classical/jazz tend to be musicians and/or elderly people. That seems a stretch. Both classical music and jazz have a very wide appeal. Classical music sometimes carries the populistic stigma of being only for old folk or the elite, but that does not reflect its actual listenership. If anything, streaming music has made classical music more accessible — at least at an entry level of the more popular pieces. Listeners of the Ring cycle may very well be a much more exclusive club (this goes for opera in general), but classical music is part of many people's lives (my two year old son digs Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf).
- fredrikholm 6y ago
  I'm happy that you have a different experience (and that your son likes a classical piece), perhaps it's dependent on location and culture? I sang classical (opera, church choir) for just over ten years, and spent a lot of time with other musicians and attended many of their performances. When it came to classical, jazz or blues it was nearly always a vast majority of musicians and elderly in the crowd, with the occasional families with small children hanging around for a few minutes when the events were public/free/outdoor. For context, I am in my early thirties and live in Sweden (including Copenhagen here as well due to proximity).
  - Freak_NL 6y ago

ArtWomb 6y ago

>>> You know how Darth Vader's theme plays when he enters the scene? Before Vader's theme, was Williams' Oscar-winning Jaws. Two notes. Unforgettable dread every time you venture into the ocean. Not to mention the birth of the Hollywood summer blockbuster phenomenon ;) https://csosoundsandstories.org/two-notes-that-changed-the-film-world-john-williams-theme-for-jaws/ https://csosoundsandstories.org/two-notes-that-changed-the-f...