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That’s assuming all current Mac developers decide to switch to ARM macs. I (Mac developer of 13 years) have switched away to linux. I’m sure there are others li

by rbut 6y ago

That’s assuming all current Mac developers decide to switch to ARM macs. I (Mac developer of 13 years) have switched away to linux. I’m sure there are others like me.

idnefju 6y ago
Not for me, the user experience for Linux based PCs hasn’t changed in 10 years. That is it still not as good as as macOS.
- broknbottle 6y ago
  The desktop experience on macOS has gotten worse with every release while the desktop experience on Linux just keeps getting better and better. Fedora, openSUSE Leap, Ubuntu all offer a great experience.
- hk1337 6y ago
  I think Linux has gotten better but it's still pretty choppy and amateur compared to macOS.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  Are macs still shipping with severely outdated CLI tools? 10 years ago, Mac users just got the ability to resize a window by any edge or corner... How's that really good window management system working out for ya? It's shocking that the Mac UX is so good that 75% of the developers out there would rather not use one... Meanwhile developers are the group that uses them more than the general population so both groups obviously disagree that Macs have a good UX at all lul.
  - evilduck 6y ago
    Windows is still shipping without CLI tools and Linux distros also mostly don't ship with build-essential or headers, -dev packages or every language toolchain. Every system requires setup and MacOS shipping with older GPL2 packages puts it squarely between the two alternatives in terms of setup and configuration cost. As for the WM differences, its just a different way of thinking about it, or a preference. None of them really bother me, personally.
    - wayneftw 6y ago
      Every system requires setup, but only Linux systems will remain exactly as you have set them up year after year, if you wish. During the last 2 years, out of all the Linux, Mac and Windows systems in my house - the Macs have been the only systems broken in some major way by an OS update. Having to remove some dangerously old GNU utils and constantly having to contend with Apple over your rights puts macOS squarely behind Linux and only just ahead of Windows (for work) in my book. If you haven't used Linux in years, try a rolling Arch based distro like Manjaro and you'll experience how little setup you actually need to get your job done. Heck, you don't even have to use the CLI to install every single piece of software you'll ever need. It literally takes minutes to setup. Windows and Mac simply can't compete in this area. WM differences don't necessarily annoy me, but I don't tolerate people saying shit like "Mac UX is better than anything, period" because that is demonstrably not true for many, many, many values of "better". I have all three at home and at work and I use each one for what it's best at. Windows for gaming and entertainment. Linux for any sort of development. Macs for Apple/Mac/iOS stuff. They each have some obvious strengths, but anyone arguing that Macs are uniformly better for developers are clearly inexperienced IMO.
kube-system 6y ago
And I made the opposite switch to Mac after the M1 was released.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  What did you switch from and how have you found it?
  - aidos 6y ago
    Not the OP but I've been on an M1 Air for a couple of weeks. It's startlingly good. It's been a lot of work to recompile our various dependencies for am ARM64 VM but overall the machine is hands down the best I've ever used.
    - samkim 6y ago
      Went through the same process except with an M1 Macbook Pro. My coworkers volunteered me to see if we could get our dev stack building and running on ARM with hopes they could eventually dump their older x86 Macbook Pros, which run loud and hot. It was a bit of a process but once we got it working, developing on the M1 has been great. Captured notes on the process here in case it's helpful for anyone later: https://authzed.com/blog/onboarding-with-an-m1/ https://authzed.com/blog/onboarding-with-an-m1/
      - aidos 6y ago
        Excellent work. More than anything; starting on a new team, sorting out the provisioning process, meaningfully contributing to the team and doing a write up for their blog. I’d wager whoever hired you is very pleased.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Switched from a thinkpad running windows/WSL. I like the native posix terminal. Much of my work that I used WSL for works natively on Mac anyway. The battery life is amazing, because I like to work away from an outlet occasionally when my mind needs it. This is the first laptop where I’ve felt comfortable leaving the house (for a full day of work) without a charger. No fan noise, no heat, no throttling under typical workloads, and no worrying about blocking the intake vents like I did on my thinkpad. I was concerned about the architecture support at first, but Rosetta 2 has been 100% seamless with the exception of some steam games I tested out, which I don’t care about anyway since this is 100% a development machine. I don’t do super intensive workloads, but the m1 has been way faster for some of the nodejs work I’ve been doing. Some of my nodejs workloads are seeing a 10x performance increase over my i5 thinkpad. And of course, you have to love the apple trackpad. I tried a few different Bluetooth mice, but I ended up just using the trackpad instead because the precision feels better than even an Mx master.
samgranieri 6y ago
I think it depends on what we’re developing on our Macs. I’m writing Elixir, Ruby, JavaScript, and a little C at work. My work Mac is a 2018 MacBook Pro and my personal Mac is a 2015 MacBook Pro. Both are reasonably fast to get stuff done, and honestly I’m waiting for everything on Homebrew to be converted over before I make the switch. Now, cross compiling does suck. I have a few raspberry pis in a kubernetes cluster at home and am looking forward to the native compilation that this new release provides.

by rbut 6y ago

That’s assuming all current Mac developers decide to switch to ARM macs. I (Mac developer of 13 years) have switched away to linux. I’m sure there are others like me.

idnefju 6y ago

Not for me, the user experience for Linux based PCs hasn’t changed in 10 years. That is it still not as good as as macOS.

broknbottle 6y ago
The desktop experience on macOS has gotten worse with every release while the desktop experience on Linux just keeps getting better and better. Fedora, openSUSE Leap, Ubuntu all offer a great experience.
hk1337 6y ago
I think Linux has gotten better but it's still pretty choppy and amateur compared to macOS.
wayneftw 6y ago
Are macs still shipping with severely outdated CLI tools? 10 years ago, Mac users just got the ability to resize a window by any edge or corner... How's that really good window management system working out for ya? It's shocking that the Mac UX is so good that 75% of the developers out there would rather not use one... Meanwhile developers are the group that uses them more than the general population so both groups obviously disagree that Macs have a good UX at all lul.
- evilduck 6y ago
  Windows is still shipping without CLI tools and Linux distros also mostly don't ship with build-essential or headers, -dev packages or every language toolchain. Every system requires setup and MacOS shipping with older GPL2 packages puts it squarely between the two alternatives in terms of setup and configuration cost. As for the WM differences, its just a different way of thinking about it, or a preference. None of them really bother me, personally.
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    Every system requires setup, but only Linux systems will remain exactly as you have set them up year after year, if you wish. During the last 2 years, out of all the Linux, Mac and Windows systems in my house - the Macs have been the only systems broken in some major way by an OS update. Having to remove some dangerously old GNU utils and constantly having to contend with Apple over your rights puts macOS squarely behind Linux and only just ahead of Windows (for work) in my book. If you haven't used Linux in years, try a rolling Arch based distro like Manjaro and you'll experience how little setup you actually need to get your job done. Heck, you don't even have to use the CLI to install every single piece of software you'll ever need. It literally takes minutes to setup. Windows and Mac simply can't compete in this area. WM differences don't necessarily annoy me, but I don't tolerate people saying shit like "Mac UX is better than anything, period" because that is demonstrably not true for many, many, many values of "better". I have all three at home and at work and I use each one for what it's best at. Windows for gaming and entertainment. Linux for any sort of development. Macs for Apple/Mac/iOS stuff. They each have some obvious strengths, but anyone arguing that Macs are uniformly better for developers are clearly inexperienced IMO.

kube-system 6y ago

And I made the opposite switch to Mac after the M1 was released.

lostlogin 6y ago
What did you switch from and how have you found it?
- aidos 6y ago
  Not the OP but I've been on an M1 Air for a couple of weeks. It's startlingly good. It's been a lot of work to recompile our various dependencies for am ARM64 VM but overall the machine is hands down the best I've ever used.
  - samkim 6y ago
    Went through the same process except with an M1 Macbook Pro. My coworkers volunteered me to see if we could get our dev stack building and running on ARM with hopes they could eventually dump their older x86 Macbook Pros, which run loud and hot. It was a bit of a process but once we got it working, developing on the M1 has been great. Captured notes on the process here in case it's helpful for anyone later: https://authzed.com/blog/onboarding-with-an-m1/ https://authzed.com/blog/onboarding-with-an-m1/
    - aidos 6y ago
      Excellent work. More than anything; starting on a new team, sorting out the provisioning process, meaningfully contributing to the team and doing a write up for their blog. I’d wager whoever hired you is very pleased.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Switched from a thinkpad running windows/WSL. I like the native posix terminal. Much of my work that I used WSL for works natively on Mac anyway. The battery life is amazing, because I like to work away from an outlet occasionally when my mind needs it. This is the first laptop where I’ve felt comfortable leaving the house (for a full day of work) without a charger. No fan noise, no heat, no throttling under typical workloads, and no worrying about blocking the intake vents like I did on my thinkpad. I was concerned about the architecture support at first, but Rosetta 2 has been 100% seamless with the exception of some steam games I tested out, which I don’t care about anyway since this is 100% a development machine. I don’t do super intensive workloads, but the m1 has been way faster for some of the nodejs work I’ve been doing. Some of my nodejs workloads are seeing a 10x performance increase over my i5 thinkpad. And of course, you have to love the apple trackpad. I tried a few different Bluetooth mice, but I ended up just using the trackpad instead because the precision feels better than even an Mx master.

samgranieri 6y ago

I think it depends on what we’re developing on our Macs. I’m writing Elixir, Ruby, JavaScript, and a little C at work. My work Mac is a 2018 MacBook Pro and my personal Mac is a 2015 MacBook Pro. Both are reasonably fast to get stuff done, and honestly I’m waiting for everything on Homebrew to be converted over before I make the switch. Now, cross compiling does suck. I have a few raspberry pis in a kubernetes cluster at home and am looking forward to the native compilation that this new release provides.