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Design design does lead community culture. Java also had the unfortunate destiny of becoming popular at the time where "OOP all the thing" was a mantra in tech

Design design does lead community culture. Java also had the unfortunate destiny of becoming popular at the time where "OOP all the thing" was a mantra in tech circles. Also design pattern were all the rage. Those things have a huge inertia, and while Java is not a much more flexible language, the image stuck, to the point that new comers still implement singletons in the wild.

pydry 6y ago
Java created that hype to market itself. OOP all the things probably wouldn't have been a thing without it, for instance. It was very much a marketed language and a language designed to be sold to top heavy corporations. This fueled a lot of the crappy design decisions, the hype and the culture.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Java created that hype to market itself. OOP all the things probably wouldn't have been a thing without it, for instance “OOP all the things” predated (and led to) Java, it wasn’t a product of Java (C++, Objective-C, Object Pascal and, well, a bunch of other things from the late 1980s and early 1990s were where it got started.) Java was about a decade into it.
  - pydry 6y ago
    There's a big difference between "OOP is cool" (which Java didn't invent) and "OOP ALL of the things".
    - doctor_eval 6y ago
      But Java clearly didn’t “OOP all the things”, unlike earlier languages like Smalltalk. Java primitives are not objects (despite the fact that I often found myself wishing they were), and static methods are actually just functions. These days Java even supports first-class functions. I know not everyone will agree with me, and that’s fine, but I always found Java to be far more pragmatic than, for example, C++, which well and truely predated Java.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Java also had the unfortunate destiny of becoming popular at the time where "OOP all the thing" was a mantra in tech circles. Java was a product of “OOP all the things”, it wouldn’t have existed without it.

pydry 6y ago

Java created that hype to market itself. OOP all the things probably wouldn't have been a thing without it, for instance. It was very much a marketed language and a language designed to be sold to top heavy corporations. This fueled a lot of the crappy design decisions, the hype and the culture.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> Java created that hype to market itself. OOP all the things probably wouldn't have been a thing without it, for instance “OOP all the things” predated (and led to) Java, it wasn’t a product of Java (C++, Objective-C, Object Pascal and, well, a bunch of other things from the late 1980s and early 1990s were where it got started.) Java was about a decade into it.
- pydry 6y ago
  There's a big difference between "OOP is cool" (which Java didn't invent) and "OOP ALL of the things".
  - doctor_eval 6y ago
    But Java clearly didn’t “OOP all the things”, unlike earlier languages like Smalltalk. Java primitives are not objects (despite the fact that I often found myself wishing they were), and static methods are actually just functions. These days Java even supports first-class functions. I know not everyone will agree with me, and that’s fine, but I always found Java to be far more pragmatic than, for example, C++, which well and truely predated Java.

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Java also had the unfortunate destiny of becoming popular at the time where "OOP all the thing" was a mantra in tech circles. Java was a product of “OOP all the things”, it wouldn’t have existed without it.