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You don't need an on-chain transaction for most things, as you can just instantly send BTC over Lightning Network, a second layer on the BTC blockchain. There's

You don't need an on-chain transaction for most things, as you can just instantly send BTC over Lightning Network, a second layer on the BTC blockchain. There's no speed limit, it's not on the chain, only nodes between you and the node you paying are involved. It's pretty neat.

zapdrive 6y ago
Lol, you are not serious, are you? Oh, I get the sarcasm now. "Lightning Network" is only "6 months away", right? Wink wink!
- VMG 6y ago
  there are a number of lightning wallets and a number of stores where you can pay using lightning transactions
  - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
    I have money stuck in limbo right now because of a failed LN transaction. Waiting to contact wallet developers. It still doesn't work
    - noch 6y ago
      > I have money stuck in limbo right now because of a failed LN transaction. The sats will return to you in 2 weeks. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/.amp/technical/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-completing-the-puzzle-and-closing-the-channel-1466178980 https://bitcoinmagazine.com/.amp/technical/understanding-the...
- zeepzeep 6y ago
  6 months away, what? I use it on a regular basis. Before covid I could even buy beer & burgers in my city. You can get coupons for everything, many online stores accept it.
  - lottin 6y ago
    > You can get coupons for everything, many online stores accept it. Such as...?
    - Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
      All phones in most countries, amazon, steam, microsoft acount, spotify etc etc.
    - noch 6y ago
      “ Bitrefill provides products and services that allow anyone to live on cryptocurrency more easily. Bitrefill.com provides a catalog of gift cards, prepaid mobile refills, and Lightning networking services that can be purchased using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies worldwide. By using Bitcoin and Lightning Network technology we provide a safe and private user experience with fast digital delivery to anywhere in the world. ” https://www.bitrefill.com/faq/?hl=en#what-is-bitrefill https://www.bitrefill.com/faq/?hl=en#what-is-bitrefill
dirktheman 6y ago
What's the upside to this then? I mean, over a bank transfer or handing over cash?
cryptica 6y ago
Lightning network doesn't work. - It forces everyone who wants to receive money to constantly run a node at all times. If their node goes down at any time (or is intentionally taken down by a hacker), in certain situations, they could lose money. - The channel provider needs to lock up a massive amount of BTC to provide liquidity to channels for all users. It costs BTC to open the channels. - It's brittle because you need many watchtower nodes to constantly monitor every single participant in real time in order to ensure that nobody cheats and rolls back valid transactions. - Watchtowers could be fooled by attackers to spend all their processing time on fake frauds to distract them from real frauds. And there are a lot more serious vulnerabilities outlined here: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-lightning-network-vulnerabilities-not-exploited-yet https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-lightning-network-vulnerabi... I think for high volume payment processing, we might as well use centralized payment providers off-chain.

zapdrive 6y ago

Lol, you are not serious, are you? Oh, I get the sarcasm now. "Lightning Network" is only "6 months away", right? Wink wink!

VMG 6y ago
there are a number of lightning wallets and a number of stores where you can pay using lightning transactions
- ajkdhcb2 6y ago
  I have money stuck in limbo right now because of a failed LN transaction. Waiting to contact wallet developers. It still doesn't work
  - noch 6y ago
    > I have money stuck in limbo right now because of a failed LN transaction. The sats will return to you in 2 weeks. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/.amp/technical/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-completing-the-puzzle-and-closing-the-channel-1466178980 https://bitcoinmagazine.com/.amp/technical/understanding-the...
zeepzeep 6y ago
6 months away, what? I use it on a regular basis. Before covid I could even buy beer & burgers in my city. You can get coupons for everything, many online stores accept it.
- lottin 6y ago
  > You can get coupons for everything, many online stores accept it. Such as...?
  - Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
    All phones in most countries, amazon, steam, microsoft acount, spotify etc etc.
  - noch 6y ago
    “ Bitrefill provides products and services that allow anyone to live on cryptocurrency more easily. Bitrefill.com provides a catalog of gift cards, prepaid mobile refills, and Lightning networking services that can be purchased using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies worldwide. By using Bitcoin and Lightning Network technology we provide a safe and private user experience with fast digital delivery to anywhere in the world. ” https://www.bitrefill.com/faq/?hl=en#what-is-bitrefill https://www.bitrefill.com/faq/?hl=en#what-is-bitrefill

dirktheman 6y ago

What's the upside to this then? I mean, over a bank transfer or handing over cash?

cryptica 6y ago

Lightning network doesn't work. - It forces everyone who wants to receive money to constantly run a node at all times. If their node goes down at any time (or is intentionally taken down by a hacker), in certain situations, they could lose money. - The channel provider needs to lock up a massive amount of BTC to provide liquidity to channels for all users. It costs BTC to open the channels. - It's brittle because you need many watchtower nodes to constantly monitor every single participant in real time in order to ensure that nobody cheats and rolls back valid transactions. - Watchtowers could be fooled by attackers to spend all their processing time on fake frauds to distract them from real frauds. And there are a lot more serious vulnerabilities outlined here: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-lightning-network-vulnerabilities-not-exploited-yet https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-lightning-network-vulnerabi... I think for high volume payment processing, we might as well use centralized payment providers off-chain.