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The miners don’t compute hashes of random data. They confirm transactions. If you don’t think that a technology that allows you to store value in a tamper free

The miners don’t compute hashes of random data. They confirm transactions. If you don’t think that a technology that allows you to store value in a tamper free digital ledger is useful it’s hard to argue the usefulness of PoW crypto currencies to begin with.

tsss 5y ago
It does so with the same efficiency as a Rube Goldberg machine moves a marble from one place to another.
- CTDOCodebases 5y ago
  Efficient or secure. Take your pick.
  - salawat 5y ago
    I"ll hire a few guys with guns, plus auditors. Their ability to maintain no sense of humor beats out your wonky crypto scheme in both regards. Your issue is you don't like the rules that come with the auditors. Those rules have a purpose, and that purpose is tied with sovereign diplomatic interrelation of civic bodies the world over. Many of whom are expressing great concern over the very thing PoW hastens. So no, it isn't either or. It's stop jeopardizing the planet in the long term so you can do whatever you're doing now. I don't care that you're doing it, and we can talk civily about the warts of the financial system so it can be tuned to meet your use case better and cone to a compromise; but PoW has the worst set of dysfunctional societal incentives I've seen in my life.
    - gruez 5y ago
      >I"ll hire a few guys with guns A few guys with guns can be beaten by several other guys with guns. >plus auditors https://www.wsj.com/articles/wirecard-scandal-puts-spotlight-on-auditor-ernst-young-11593286933 https://www.wsj.com/articles/wirecard-scandal-puts-spotlight...
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        How's that Tether transparency report looking :) ahh, here it is. [1] [1] https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021.02.17_-_settlement_agreement_-_execution_version.b-t_signed-c2_oag_signed.pdf https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021.02.17_-_settlemen...
UncleMeat 5y ago
What if we had 1000x the power being used to confirm transactions? 1,000,000x the power? At some point we aren't achieving anything. The is made worse by the fact that there are alternatives to produce trustworthy ledgers that don't involve destroying the planet.
- Siira 5y ago
  Yes, alternatives that work for rich, powerful people.
  - knorthfield 5y ago
    These people buying power stations aren't rich? One of the issues with crypto currency is that we're replacing one elite with another. As John Oliver says Cryptocurrency is everything you don't understand about finance combined with everything you don't understand about computers. That new, even eliter, elite is probably no more moral or ethical than the old. It's not like cryptocurrency is more accessible. Maybe it will become so but I still have to fork out a lot of money to buy Bitcoin. It's just the fees get paid to different people. Not entirely sure how it's better. It is different though, I'll give you that.
    - jessaustin 5y ago
      Bitcoin is like any other infinitely divisible asset. You can buy as much or as little as you want.
berdario 5y ago
The nonce used as input of the mining hash function IS random (or rather, arbitrary). Comments like the above are a sad demonstration of the fact that, while Bitcoin was originally an interesting technical project... Discussion of it has now been completely taken over by shills that try to dismiss/refute/hide all of the problems with Bitcoin (or the cryptoasset du jour) to safeguard their bet
- Siira 5y ago
  You’re just deflecting. Your argument is as invalid as “mutations are random so evolution is false.” Randomness in an algorithm does not mean the algorithm is non-converging.
  - berdario 5y ago
    I never said anything about converging or not. My GP's post simply points out that having repeated computations with arbitrary input is wasteful. "Your argument is as invalid as..." ROTFL Wake me up when Bitcoin moves to a PoS consensus (Btw, I recommend whoever is reading to also steer clear of PoS coins... If you want to invest, look elsewhere)

tsss 5y ago

It does so with the same efficiency as a Rube Goldberg machine moves a marble from one place to another.

CTDOCodebases 5y ago
Efficient or secure. Take your pick.
- salawat 5y ago
  I"ll hire a few guys with guns, plus auditors. Their ability to maintain no sense of humor beats out your wonky crypto scheme in both regards. Your issue is you don't like the rules that come with the auditors. Those rules have a purpose, and that purpose is tied with sovereign diplomatic interrelation of civic bodies the world over. Many of whom are expressing great concern over the very thing PoW hastens. So no, it isn't either or. It's stop jeopardizing the planet in the long term so you can do whatever you're doing now. I don't care that you're doing it, and we can talk civily about the warts of the financial system so it can be tuned to meet your use case better and cone to a compromise; but PoW has the worst set of dysfunctional societal incentives I've seen in my life.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >I"ll hire a few guys with guns A few guys with guns can be beaten by several other guys with guns. >plus auditors https://www.wsj.com/articles/wirecard-scandal-puts-spotlight-on-auditor-ernst-young-11593286933 https://www.wsj.com/articles/wirecard-scandal-puts-spotlight...
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      How's that Tether transparency report looking :) ahh, here it is. [1] [1] https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021.02.17_-_settlement_agreement_-_execution_version.b-t_signed-c2_oag_signed.pdf https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021.02.17_-_settlemen...

UncleMeat 5y ago

What if we had 1000x the power being used to confirm transactions? 1,000,000x the power? At some point we aren't achieving anything. The is made worse by the fact that there are alternatives to produce trustworthy ledgers that don't involve destroying the planet.

Siira 5y ago
Yes, alternatives that work for rich, powerful people.
- knorthfield 5y ago
  These people buying power stations aren't rich? One of the issues with crypto currency is that we're replacing one elite with another. As John Oliver says Cryptocurrency is everything you don't understand about finance combined with everything you don't understand about computers. That new, even eliter, elite is probably no more moral or ethical than the old. It's not like cryptocurrency is more accessible. Maybe it will become so but I still have to fork out a lot of money to buy Bitcoin. It's just the fees get paid to different people. Not entirely sure how it's better. It is different though, I'll give you that.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    Bitcoin is like any other infinitely divisible asset. You can buy as much or as little as you want.

berdario 5y ago

The nonce used as input of the mining hash function IS random (or rather, arbitrary). Comments like the above are a sad demonstration of the fact that, while Bitcoin was originally an interesting technical project... Discussion of it has now been completely taken over by shills that try to dismiss/refute/hide all of the problems with Bitcoin (or the cryptoasset du jour) to safeguard their bet

Siira 5y ago
You’re just deflecting. Your argument is as invalid as “mutations are random so evolution is false.” Randomness in an algorithm does not mean the algorithm is non-converging.
- berdario 5y ago
  I never said anything about converging or not. My GP's post simply points out that having repeated computations with arbitrary input is wasteful. "Your argument is as invalid as..." ROTFL Wake me up when Bitcoin moves to a PoS consensus (Btw, I recommend whoever is reading to also steer clear of PoS coins... If you want to invest, look elsewhere)