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Moving from PHP to ruby, language speed has never happened to be a subject. During coffee time banter, sure, but in real performance related issues, what we fa

by hrktb 5y ago

Moving from PHP to ruby, language speed has never happened to be a subject. During coffee time banter, sure, but in real performance related issues, what we face came down to query optimizing, cache management, algorithmic issues and data pre-processing. We didn’t even hit the “let’s write this in C” moment nor debated about moving parts of the code to faster systems/libraries. I’m not saying it will never ever happen, just that ruby’s sheer speed doesn’t seem to have a practical impact other than slightly higher hosting cost perhaps.

slver 5y ago
I'm sure that's the case. But as we break down the arguments that PHP sucks one by one, it's not performance, it's not libraries, it's not this, it's not that. How about this article "PHP a fractal of bad design", oh most of those no longer apply to PHP. What's left? The slightly unwieldy syntax (still C-like, so close enough), and the bad reputation driven by memes.
- hrktb 5y ago
  I didn’t touch PHP 7+ for kore than hobby projects so things might have changed, but to me PHP’s main issue (and to some extent JS) was the need for a strong defensive coding discipline. There is no specific flaw that is a roadblock, just a ton of things you know you shouldn’t do, cases you need to guard against, and base functions we effectively banned from our codebase. I still like PHP, and just moved for unrelated reasons, but I think that’s a specificity of the language (as a side effect, good PHP devs also easily become good JS devs in my experience)
  - gremlinsinc 5y ago
    > the need for a strong defensive coding discipline. PHP 7/8 have a lot more typings, it's still optional but you can require your code to use strict typings, and you can use a static analyzer like psalm to basically recommend best practices, add a few tests and your code is pretty damn solid and passes most "smell" tests and generally won't break often or as often as something in python, ruby, go. Mix in swoole and you went from 200 reqs/sec to 6k which is about 2k more than elixir, so really just about every issue php ever had is basically replaced by just more "mature" architecture. If you know advanced php, and the new features/best practices etc and use good tooling then php is an awesome language.
colllectorof 5y ago
It's not "language speed", it's memory consumption per request that makes the biggest difference in practice.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  The two are heavily correlated, though.

by hrktb 5y ago

slver 5y ago

I'm sure that's the case. But as we break down the arguments that PHP sucks one by one, it's not performance, it's not libraries, it's not this, it's not that. How about this article "PHP a fractal of bad design", oh most of those no longer apply to PHP. What's left? The slightly unwieldy syntax (still C-like, so close enough), and the bad reputation driven by memes.

hrktb 5y ago
I didn’t touch PHP 7+ for kore than hobby projects so things might have changed, but to me PHP’s main issue (and to some extent JS) was the need for a strong defensive coding discipline. There is no specific flaw that is a roadblock, just a ton of things you know you shouldn’t do, cases you need to guard against, and base functions we effectively banned from our codebase. I still like PHP, and just moved for unrelated reasons, but I think that’s a specificity of the language (as a side effect, good PHP devs also easily become good JS devs in my experience)
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  > the need for a strong defensive coding discipline. PHP 7/8 have a lot more typings, it's still optional but you can require your code to use strict typings, and you can use a static analyzer like psalm to basically recommend best practices, add a few tests and your code is pretty damn solid and passes most "smell" tests and generally won't break often or as often as something in python, ruby, go. Mix in swoole and you went from 200 reqs/sec to 6k which is about 2k more than elixir, so really just about every issue php ever had is basically replaced by just more "mature" architecture. If you know advanced php, and the new features/best practices etc and use good tooling then php is an awesome language.

colllectorof 5y ago

It's not "language speed", it's memory consumption per request that makes the biggest difference in practice.

zozbot234 5y ago
The two are heavily correlated, though.