5 ms·

We lost the war, haven't we?

by dt3ft 6y ago

nine_k 6y ago
The war has not ended yet. I see no point in declaring defeat.
bjt2n3904 6y ago
> "I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. > "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." It looks bleak... but hey. Hobbits toppled the Eye of Sauron.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  Somehow this reminds me a bit of the bible... Luke 22:42 > “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
ehnto 6y ago
It depends on the scope I think. There's obviously nothing stopping anyone from running other browsers, blocking tracking as best they can, anonymizing as much as possible, or hell even starting their own networks to avoid it all together. The technology is still there, still open and free. But the net now contains the general populace, and as such significant power has been amassed by controlling it. I don't believe the internet as we know it is in the hands of the netizens anymore, and I have to doubt that the majority of the netizens would even care. Google and Amazon have both showed continued behavior showing that they'll eat, buy or smother anything that comes a little too close to them, why should we expect that it would be any different if we tried to kick their behaviors off the network?
techrat 6y ago
> Chromium is open source > Nearly every browser is based on open source code "We lost the war, haven't we?" What's stopping you, or anyone else, from forking code and making it privacy focused? Microsoft got complacent and IE lost to Mozilla. Mozilla got bloated, lazy and they lost their focus after several missteps, several of which alienated the fuck out of the FOSS community. (Forcing several distros to fork and rebrand to something like Iceweasel? Seriously? Way to dilute your own branding.) Chrome took over because it simply was the better browser. It brought a lot of new things to the table that made Firefox look stale in relatively short amount of time. Is it still the better browser? I don't think that's quite as clear cut these days... but unfortunately, browsers like "Brave" aren't doing anyone any favors with their misleading presentation, sketchy tactics and meme like spamming from users who don't look beyond bitelines. So when it comes down to it, every Chromium fork that currently exists still has a business, with business motives, behind it. The source is there. Does somebody want to make an effort to fork it and let it be the true privacy focused browser or are we just going to complain about losing a war that nobody's really fighting?
- fctorial 6y ago
  > What's stopping you, or anyone else, from forking code and making it privacy focused? What's stopping you from forking taj mahal?
  - elisaado 6y ago
    Taj Mahal is not open source, chromium is.
    - fctorial 6y ago
      Taj mahal is also open source. You just aren't putting in enough effort.
- withinboredom 6y ago
  > What's stopping you, or anyone else, from forking code and making it privacy focused? Widevine, for starters. It's also licensed by, you guessed it, Google.
  - artifact_44 6y ago
    Google bought widevine last year. Now you can use it on raspberry pi, and other devices. So while true, your statement actually is an example of google making the infrastructure more available under the google umbrella. Google didn't invent that particular DRM, but now that it's widespread, they have bought it outright. I don't know if their purchase included the rights to open source it in the near future, but it wouldn't surprise me. However, Amazon Prime Video, BBC, Hulu, Netflix, Spotify and Disney+ all use widevine, so I imagine there are more companies at play in this scenario than just google.
    - rndgermandude 6y ago
      >Google bought widevine last year. Google bought widewine in 2010 >Google didn't invent that particular DRM, but now that it's widespread, they have bought it outright. It invented most of it, in the last 10 years it owned widevine. As for how open widevine is: >I'm sorry but we're not supporting an open source solution like this https://blog.samuelmaddock.com/widevine/gmail-thread.html https://blog.samuelmaddock.com/widevine/gmail-thread.html Or as Brian Bondy, of Brave, put it: >This is a prime example for why free as in beer is not enough. Small share browsers are at the mercy of Google, and Google is stalling us for no communicated-to-us reason. https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/issues/10449#issuecomment-323800130 https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/issues/10449#issueco... So yeah, you can fork chromium and make your own nifty browser. But do not expect being able to play any video from any paid streaming service any time soon or ever.
Kiro 6y ago
Yes, people need to get out of the HN filter bubble and realize that this is a problem no-one in the real world actually cares about. The storm will continue in the teapot but no sites with any substantial traffic will do anything about it.
- nextlevelwizard 6y ago
  no one in the real world cares about privacy or encryption either, yet we still advocate for both

We lost the war, haven't we?

by dt3ft 6y ago

We lost the war, haven't we?

nine_k 6y ago

The war has not ended yet. I see no point in declaring defeat.

bjt2n3904 6y ago

> "I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. > "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." It looks bleak... but hey. Hobbits toppled the Eye of Sauron.

MayeulC 6y ago
Somehow this reminds me a bit of the bible... Luke 22:42 > “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

ehnto 6y ago

It depends on the scope I think. There's obviously nothing stopping anyone from running other browsers, blocking tracking as best they can, anonymizing as much as possible, or hell even starting their own networks to avoid it all together. The technology is still there, still open and free. But the net now contains the general populace, and as such significant power has been amassed by controlling it. I don't believe the internet as we know it is in the hands of the netizens anymore, and I have to doubt that the majority of the netizens would even care. Google and Amazon have both showed continued behavior showing that they'll eat, buy or smother anything that comes a little too close to them, why should we expect that it would be any different if we tried to kick their behaviors off the network?

techrat 6y ago

> Chromium is open source > Nearly every browser is based on open source code "We lost the war, haven't we?" What's stopping you, or anyone else, from forking code and making it privacy focused? Microsoft got complacent and IE lost to Mozilla. Mozilla got bloated, lazy and they lost their focus after several missteps, several of which alienated the fuck out of the FOSS community. (Forcing several distros to fork and rebrand to something like Iceweasel? Seriously? Way to dilute your own branding.) Chrome took over because it simply was the better browser. It brought a lot of new things to the table that made Firefox look stale in relatively short amount of time. Is it still the better browser? I don't think that's quite as clear cut these days... but unfortunately, browsers like "Brave" aren't doing anyone any favors with their misleading presentation, sketchy tactics and meme like spamming from users who don't look beyond bitelines. So when it comes down to it, every Chromium fork that currently exists still has a business, with business motives, behind it. The source is there. Does somebody want to make an effort to fork it and let it be the true privacy focused browser or are we just going to complain about losing a war that nobody's really fighting?

fctorial 6y ago
> What's stopping you, or anyone else, from forking code and making it privacy focused? What's stopping you from forking taj mahal?
- elisaado 6y ago
  Taj Mahal is not open source, chromium is.
  - fctorial 6y ago
    Taj mahal is also open source. You just aren't putting in enough effort.
withinboredom 6y ago
> What's stopping you, or anyone else, from forking code and making it privacy focused? Widevine, for starters. It's also licensed by, you guessed it, Google.
- artifact_44 6y ago
  Google bought widevine last year. Now you can use it on raspberry pi, and other devices. So while true, your statement actually is an example of google making the infrastructure more available under the google umbrella. Google didn't invent that particular DRM, but now that it's widespread, they have bought it outright. I don't know if their purchase included the rights to open source it in the near future, but it wouldn't surprise me. However, Amazon Prime Video, BBC, Hulu, Netflix, Spotify and Disney+ all use widevine, so I imagine there are more companies at play in this scenario than just google.
  - rndgermandude 6y ago
    >Google bought widevine last year. Google bought widewine in 2010 >Google didn't invent that particular DRM, but now that it's widespread, they have bought it outright. It invented most of it, in the last 10 years it owned widevine. As for how open widevine is: >I'm sorry but we're not supporting an open source solution like this https://blog.samuelmaddock.com/widevine/gmail-thread.html https://blog.samuelmaddock.com/widevine/gmail-thread.html Or as Brian Bondy, of Brave, put it: >This is a prime example for why free as in beer is not enough. Small share browsers are at the mercy of Google, and Google is stalling us for no communicated-to-us reason. https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/issues/10449#issuecomment-323800130 https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/issues/10449#issueco... So yeah, you can fork chromium and make your own nifty browser. But do not expect being able to play any video from any paid streaming service any time soon or ever.

Kiro 6y ago

Yes, people need to get out of the HN filter bubble and realize that this is a problem no-one in the real world actually cares about. The storm will continue in the teapot but no sites with any substantial traffic will do anything about it.

nextlevelwizard 6y ago
no one in the real world cares about privacy or encryption either, yet we still advocate for both