4 ms·
Verbosity is not a problem in large code bases. Speed of understanding and debugging of what somebody else wrote is. So, less magic is better. I will take Java
by LaserToy 5y ago
Verbosity is not a problem in large code bases. Speed of understanding and debugging of what somebody else wrote is.
So, less magic is better. I will take Java codebase over Scala or Python every time, unless it is a toy script which is 100 lines
- cle 5y agoEvery significant Java codebase I've worked in has had incredible amounts of magic. Between AOP, DI frameworks, APT, reflection, proxies, SPI, Lombok compiler hacks, dynamic classloaders, etc., there is a LOT of magic flying around and it can be quite hard to understand what will happen at runtime.
- tirrex 5y agoI’m not a backend java dev but whenever I take a look at java web projects which use spring/jsf/jsp etc frameworks, docs say to handle a request, write a method with that signature, we’ll call it when there is a http request. I always want to know enterence/exit points of a network message but that is impossible with these fancy frameworks. It is pure magic.
- LaserToy 5y agoI’m talking about the language, not frameworks. AOP sucks because it is paaaain to debug, proxies are magic. There is Dagger that solve some stuff
- fomine3 5y agoThis. Java communities tried to solve redundant code problem by complex, hard to recognize way.
- smitty1e 5y agoStill got PTSD from a Hinernate codebase that had all sorts of initialization magic afoot. Who needs CPP macros when you've got reflection?
- inshadows 5y agoDon't forget XML DSLs. Or are we past that?
- esarbe 5y agoThis is what drove me away from Java; the ungodly amount of magic that's required to make it economic. If it all works, it's fine. But as soon as something fails... Get yourself ready from some frustrating hours.
- pbadenski 5y agoALL Java developers should be required to watch this course (it's Free): https://software-mastery.teachable.com/p/uncommon-sense https://software-mastery.teachable.com/p/uncommon-sense FYI: I am NOT an author of this course.
- tirrex 5y agoJava style verbosity hurts readability. That’s the most important issue with Java imho. Take a look at a http server one in Java and one in C. Readability difference is crazy. My company is in transition from Java to C, for bunch of stuff just for performance reasons. So, I debug similar projects time to time both in Java and C, http server, in memory cache, iot server etc. After seeing both, I just think although Java has great tooling, it drives developers to write unreadable code.
- LaserToy 5y agoI mentioned C as a language of choice. Cool kids are picking node js and esoteric Closure, not C