6 ms·

First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. (https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=sn

by dotBen 5y ago

First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. (https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor) If you get a job in customer support at Amazon there is literally no way to get a 'promotion' to a dev role. It's different parts of the org, and you're tarnished with being a CS person. Why? Because it's signaling - people who can do eng roles at Amazon don't take CS roles so they don't bother mining to check on the rare chance someone in CS can. In your replies you say "I haven't lasted anywhere longer than 2 months. I contribute a lot and then quit after I feel like I'm not getting appropriate compensation." If your resume reflects that you've bounced around after a few months as a hiring manager I'm not even going to bother offering you an interview. You also said your were home schooled and many people here have commented you might have social skill issues. I am not a doctor but I wonder if you have delusions of grandeur around your abilities which is creating a miss-match of expectation leading you to quit jobs you need to tough it out in. Or you have dyslexia or another learning difficulty (I have dyslexia, I quit school, never went to university, did many shit jobs to work my way up, it took years and years) I would suggest you find someone who is an actual hiring manager to give you a mock interview and analyze their feedback. If you can't find someone closer in your circle, I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years) If you want a career in tech you do need to get out of the wrong swim-lane, which a CS role at Amazon is the wrong lane as it will never convert to where you want it to go.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
Homeschooled doesn't imply social skill deficit. Sure, some homeschooled kids have social skill issues, but some public school kids also have social skill issues. In the end, a healthy, non-insular, loving, connected family (either family of origin or a healthy/happy group into which one is welcomed and spends lots of time) is the only necessary requirement for healthy social skills, and it's often sufficient as well.
- chillfox 5y ago
  Homeschooling is frequently paired with some degree of insular.
  - TimTheTinker 5y ago
    Only in the (few) news stories you read about some sick family; I'm convinced those are hand-picked outliers to reinforce a narrative that homeschooling=bad.
    - chillfox 5y ago
      There is no need for a family to be "sick" or not loving for homeschooling to end up being a little insular. I grew up being home schooled while traveling the world. It definitely resulted in weaker social skills as I lacked long friendships. Making lasting friendships and maintaining relationships is a skill I had to learn later in life.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- suck-it-dang 5y ago
  It is not necessary. My wife came from a broken home and extreme poverty, and yet she is infinitely more relatable and empathetic than the average knuckle-dragging troglodyte HN poster.
Clewza313 5y ago
Customer support for AWS can convert into other roles pretty easily, just apply for internal transfers for adjacent roles or move into devops etc at another company. But if you have programming skills, I agree you're far off going directly for dev roles instead.
- taabcd 5y ago
  For amazon, the move it not to apply formally through the internal jobs site. Clicking apply will notify your manager instantly. So the accepted practice is to connect directly with the HM for a chat/pre-interview and once they say they are inclined (barring unexpected info), click apply. This is fairly common and expected.
  - snakedoctor 5y ago
    Yeah it pings your manager whenever you apply internally. That is an interesting work around. You can see HM/Sourcer/Recruiter for any roles internally. Then just get their contact information via Phone tool.
    - taabcd 5y ago
      steps: 1) chime or slack them asking to setup a 30 minute sync about the role. 2) see what they want and if "apply"ing makes sense. If not, figure out your gaps. Do this 5ish times. See where the gaps are. Work to fill them. oh and get on blind so you can learn from other people's mistakes :)
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    This is typical for internal transfers in large companies, pressing Apply is (almost) the last step. From the other side of equation as a hiring manager, it's a small negative signal if somebody internal applies "cold", the good candidates tend to reach out first.
    - taabcd 5y ago
      +1 Dont do this at apple though* *this is hearsay. Maybe up/downvotes can help resolve this?
Igelau 5y ago
> First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. That's creepy and a poor start for giving someone social skills advice.
- gnulinux 5y ago
  I strongly disagree. Going through an anonymous person's social media history just to give social advice sounds appropriate. That is the only input GP could work with.
snakedoctor 5y ago
Thanks, dude. Yeah I was hesitant if I should've accepted the CS offer. I was planning to transfer internally to a SecEng/Analyst/SDE 1 role. It might've been possible. I tried applying internally, but my applications would just turn in to no longer considered after a while. ytcracker works at Amazon. I sent you an email to take you up on your mock interview offer.
- bawolff 5y ago
  If you need the money you should probably take any job you could get. Customer support is not exactly a natural stepping stone, but its extremely hard to advance your career if you don't have enough money to survive.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  At Amazon internal transfers don't work by clicking the "Apply" button. You reach out to the hiring manager first and have a coffee together, then if that goes well they setup the internal loop, if that goes well the hiring manager tells you to apply and you get the job. You don't apply until after you have it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
snapetom 5y ago
> wonder if you have delusions of grandeur around your abilities which is creating a miss-match of expectation leading you to quit jobs you need to tough it out in. Not a doctor either, but I would agree with this. OP seems to have a disconnect between what reality and the old days of the first bubble where if you could spell programmer, you got a job as one. It doesn't work like that anymore, OP. Too much competition, too many people with more experience, skill, and education than you. You need to put in the work and rid yourself of any notion that you are entitled to a dev job. And it's probably my naiveté, but I tend to think the social awkwardness/spectrum issues aren't as strong as people here are saying. This is engineering. There's always been a higher percentage of people on the spectrum than in other fields. At any given job, I'd say about 1/3 of my coworkers are somewhere on the spectrum. I haven't been a job where people who simply have awkward communication skills aren't offered. Now, if they do come across as an arrogant dick, spectrum or not, that's an entirely different issue.
- bad44 5y ago
  > Not a doctor either Then maybe it's time to shut the fuck up? Even a real doctor would not be qualified to diagnose someone based on an internet post.
- atoav 5y ago
  Yes, but as a programmer I'd rather have a mediocre programmer who is a good communicator and who knows how to integrate with the team, than someone who has uncontrolled narcissistic tendecies and oversteps boundaries constantly even if they technically know more. This has btw. not much to do with being on the spectrum. I also worked with people with disorders which integrated quite well into the team, because they understood the processes and the scope of their position. They all were able to differenciate criticism of their work from criticism of their very being as a person.
  - noodle 5y ago
    > Yes, but as a programmer I'd rather have a mediocre programmer who is a good communicator and who knows how to integrate with the team I wholeheartedly agree with this, but fwiw, the FAANG companies OP applies for generally speaking don't. I think the applicable advice is for OP to go work for a smaller company.
JamesDeepDown 5y ago
"I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years)" This is an incredibly generous offer and I hope it gets done, because it would BY FAR the most valuable thing that the OP needs.
- suck-it-dang 5y ago
  So that this clown can call OP "really weird" in person, or what? The world would be a better place if all of these smug Silicon Valley dimwits were shackled up and forced to clear underbrush in the forests, as opposed to whatever reality-distortion bullshit they're working on at a FAANG.
- dotBen 5y ago
  I spent almost 2hrs with snakedoctor this evening. He's a smart young man who just needs some pointers and advice as he doesn't really have anyone around him who has experience of landing and keeping a job in tech.
  - A_Venom_Roll 5y ago
    That's awesome! You are a good human being!
  - hnra 5y ago
    Props to you for being amazingly empathetic!
  - amacbride 5y ago
    This may be the single best thing I’ve ever read on HN; truly awesome and generous for you to have reached out in this way.
  - FabHK 5y ago
    Bravo!
  - tomduncalf 5y ago
    What an awesome way to help out. Respect!

by dotBen 5y ago

TimTheTinker 5y ago

Homeschooled doesn't imply social skill deficit. Sure, some homeschooled kids have social skill issues, but some public school kids also have social skill issues. In the end, a healthy, non-insular, loving, connected family (either family of origin or a healthy/happy group into which one is welcomed and spends lots of time) is the only necessary requirement for healthy social skills, and it's often sufficient as well.

chillfox 5y ago
Homeschooling is frequently paired with some degree of insular.
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  Only in the (few) news stories you read about some sick family; I'm convinced those are hand-picked outliers to reinforce a narrative that homeschooling=bad.
  - chillfox 5y ago
    There is no need for a family to be "sick" or not loving for homeschooling to end up being a little insular. I grew up being home schooled while traveling the world. It definitely resulted in weaker social skills as I lacked long friendships. Making lasting friendships and maintaining relationships is a skill I had to learn later in life.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
suck-it-dang 5y ago
It is not necessary. My wife came from a broken home and extreme poverty, and yet she is infinitely more relatable and empathetic than the average knuckle-dragging troglodyte HN poster.

Clewza313 5y ago

Customer support for AWS can convert into other roles pretty easily, just apply for internal transfers for adjacent roles or move into devops etc at another company. But if you have programming skills, I agree you're far off going directly for dev roles instead.

taabcd 5y ago
For amazon, the move it not to apply formally through the internal jobs site. Clicking apply will notify your manager instantly. So the accepted practice is to connect directly with the HM for a chat/pre-interview and once they say they are inclined (barring unexpected info), click apply. This is fairly common and expected.
- snakedoctor 5y ago
  Yeah it pings your manager whenever you apply internally. That is an interesting work around. You can see HM/Sourcer/Recruiter for any roles internally. Then just get their contact information via Phone tool.
  - taabcd 5y ago
    steps: 1) chime or slack them asking to setup a 30 minute sync about the role. 2) see what they want and if "apply"ing makes sense. If not, figure out your gaps. Do this 5ish times. See where the gaps are. Work to fill them. oh and get on blind so you can learn from other people's mistakes :)
- Clewza313 5y ago
  This is typical for internal transfers in large companies, pressing Apply is (almost) the last step. From the other side of equation as a hiring manager, it's a small negative signal if somebody internal applies "cold", the good candidates tend to reach out first.
  - taabcd 5y ago
    +1 Dont do this at apple though* *this is hearsay. Maybe up/downvotes can help resolve this?

Igelau 5y ago

> First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. That's creepy and a poor start for giving someone social skills advice.

gnulinux 5y ago
I strongly disagree. Going through an anonymous person's social media history just to give social advice sounds appropriate. That is the only input GP could work with.

snakedoctor 5y ago

Thanks, dude. Yeah I was hesitant if I should've accepted the CS offer. I was planning to transfer internally to a SecEng/Analyst/SDE 1 role. It might've been possible. I tried applying internally, but my applications would just turn in to no longer considered after a while. ytcracker works at Amazon. I sent you an email to take you up on your mock interview offer.

bawolff 5y ago
If you need the money you should probably take any job you could get. Customer support is not exactly a natural stepping stone, but its extremely hard to advance your career if you don't have enough money to survive.
ALittleLight 5y ago
At Amazon internal transfers don't work by clicking the "Apply" button. You reach out to the hiring manager first and have a coffee together, then if that goes well they setup the internal loop, if that goes well the hiring manager tells you to apply and you get the job. You don't apply until after you have it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

snapetom 5y ago

> wonder if you have delusions of grandeur around your abilities which is creating a miss-match of expectation leading you to quit jobs you need to tough it out in. Not a doctor either, but I would agree with this. OP seems to have a disconnect between what reality and the old days of the first bubble where if you could spell programmer, you got a job as one. It doesn't work like that anymore, OP. Too much competition, too many people with more experience, skill, and education than you. You need to put in the work and rid yourself of any notion that you are entitled to a dev job. And it's probably my naiveté, but I tend to think the social awkwardness/spectrum issues aren't as strong as people here are saying. This is engineering. There's always been a higher percentage of people on the spectrum than in other fields. At any given job, I'd say about 1/3 of my coworkers are somewhere on the spectrum. I haven't been a job where people who simply have awkward communication skills aren't offered. Now, if they do come across as an arrogant dick, spectrum or not, that's an entirely different issue.

bad44 5y ago
> Not a doctor either Then maybe it's time to shut the fuck up? Even a real doctor would not be qualified to diagnose someone based on an internet post.
atoav 5y ago
Yes, but as a programmer I'd rather have a mediocre programmer who is a good communicator and who knows how to integrate with the team, than someone who has uncontrolled narcissistic tendecies and oversteps boundaries constantly even if they technically know more. This has btw. not much to do with being on the spectrum. I also worked with people with disorders which integrated quite well into the team, because they understood the processes and the scope of their position. They all were able to differenciate criticism of their work from criticism of their very being as a person.
- noodle 5y ago
  > Yes, but as a programmer I'd rather have a mediocre programmer who is a good communicator and who knows how to integrate with the team I wholeheartedly agree with this, but fwiw, the FAANG companies OP applies for generally speaking don't. I think the applicable advice is for OP to go work for a smaller company.

JamesDeepDown 5y ago

"I'll give you mock 30 minute interview (I've hired countless engineers, designers, PMs and other roles in the last 20+ years)" This is an incredibly generous offer and I hope it gets done, because it would BY FAR the most valuable thing that the OP needs.

suck-it-dang 5y ago
So that this clown can call OP "really weird" in person, or what? The world would be a better place if all of these smug Silicon Valley dimwits were shackled up and forced to clear underbrush in the forests, as opposed to whatever reality-distortion bullshit they're working on at a FAANG.
dotBen 5y ago
I spent almost 2hrs with snakedoctor this evening. He's a smart young man who just needs some pointers and advice as he doesn't really have anyone around him who has experience of landing and keeping a job in tech.
- A_Venom_Roll 5y ago
  That's awesome! You are a good human being!
- hnra 5y ago
  Props to you for being amazingly empathetic!
- amacbride 5y ago
  This may be the single best thing I’ve ever read on HN; truly awesome and generous for you to have reached out in this way.
- FabHK 5y ago
  Bravo!
- tomduncalf 5y ago
  What an awesome way to help out. Respect!