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I am glad that this story has a happy ending. But, as this poster stated (see comment tree here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065803 https://news.yco

I am glad that this story has a happy ending. But, as this poster stated (see comment tree here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065803) there is no reason to be going into wilderness in 2020 (or 2021) without a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). You get them, of course, at a place like REI. As another poster said "They should be considered as basic and as necessary as a life vest, seat belt, or bike helmet. You should not be backpacking on the Appalachian trail without one." See this comment tree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435 There are also variants of PLBs (which are not as robust) called satellite communicators. The Garmin Inreach series and Zotero devices are quite popular satellite communicators. Even when exercising outside and not in the wilderness, I carry a Garmin Inreach Mini (which works with my Garmin watch) in case of a medical emergency. I have health conditions and it virtually guarantees that emergency services gets my GPS coordinates. Of course, I take other safety precautions to avoid an emergency in the first place.

ghaff 5y ago
I just really have a lot of trouble with that comment. I originally downvoted--but then I didn't--but I just have trouble with the concept that I must always take active measures to have people rescue me just really bothers me. I'd probably consider a PLB if I were soloing in a remote area but I doubt if I would on the AT in general. And certainly don't have (or would consider) in routine local outside areas.
- disabled 5y ago
  If hiking on a trail even on the outskirts, EMS can have trouble locating you. I am from the Pacific Northwest, and I am quite hardy. You carry one so that you can be located in an emergency.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I'm sure it's just a difference in philosophy and, perhaps, age. And, yes, I've done a lot of hiking in the PNW although I don't live there. Just not something I'm interested in generally.
- verall 5y ago
  The parent comment explains what a PLB is an how to get to them. If you're experienced enough to judge the risks yourself, it's just advice. Noone requires you to take a PLB, water bottle, or buddy, but all would raise your chance of survival in an emergency.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    The parent wrote "there is no reason to be going into wilderness in 2020 (or 2021)." The implication was that it was irresponsible to do otherwise. I agree with your comment generally though. If you are experienced enough to make choices you can do so. Including doing solo activities. (Though I might draw the line at things like not taking water which are bad practices in many circumstances.)
    - aksss 5y ago
      I think a lot of it is that the safety nets let people be more careless, and proper skills aren’t considered prerequisites. I grew up with the ethos that you never want to be that guy who has to get rescued from the wilderness (and I still believe that). To me, having to get rescued is a mark of severe embarrassment - not only for your own failure in the outdoors but what you’ve now obligated others to risk in the rescue attempt. That means you better have skills, be hardy, and be prepared for shit and not assume you can just “eject” from your situation with an sos button. Things change when you get your own dependent family though, and the cheapness of a locator device like an inreach make them very cheap insurance for stupid mistakes if you still want to engage in lone multi-day wilderness excursions. I really don’t think it should change anything in risk calculation and preparedness though. If you have to use it, it still represents a complete fail for you as an outdoorsman. The downside is that their easy availability makes people more likely to engage SAR when they should just suck it up or not have gone out in the first place.
      - disabled 5y ago
        > I really don’t think it should change anything in risk calculation and preparedness though. If you have to use it, it still represents a complete fail for you as an outdoorsman. The downside is that their easy availability makes people more likely to engage SAR when they should just suck it up or not have gone out in the first place. Thank you! Exactly and agreed 100%. Even when out-and-about in public in the city, I can deploy it in a few seconds (either via the device itself or my Garmin watch), in addition to calling 911 for someone in distress, so the exact GPS coordinates of the incident are shared. This ensures that no delays occur with rescue on my end. I am big on preparing and I look needing SAR operations as a huge systemic failure. It is true that all it takes is one mistake to end up in such a situation. As I said, I have health conditions. Backpacking for days in the wilderness (no matter how prepared or "responsible" I may be) is not possible and is unsafe in my particular situation. I can go on day hikes though, generally, without issue with adequate preparation. For people criticizing the use of such technology: Have you called 911 before for an incident where there are not a lot of addresses/cross-streets/markings, such as at a national park? Do you realize that SAR resources are precious and extremely limited? Do you realize that SAR operations can be quite dangerous, even for the well trained and seasoned professional? I should point out that I also spend time on the water, and I take my Garmin inReach Mini with me, in the inReach Mini Dive Case. I have it clipped to my lifejacket with a carabiner clip, which I wear at all times during water activities. It should be pointed out that the Garmin inReach Mini is useless underwater, as electrical signals cannot be transmitted through water, which is something everyone should be aware of. The same goes likewise for any PLB. When on the water, the inReach Mini likewise works best with a smartphone (iPhone, in my case), which I keep in a dive case, also clipped to my jacket. Thankfully, I have never had to use my Garmin inReach Mini. I don't "hope" it never happens. I plan as much as possible, to avoid a SAR situation at all costs. I also look at it as a responsible thing to have, both for myself, and also in case someone nearby is in trouble.
- jonah 5y ago
  If you're outside of cellphone range - which is pretty feasible even in near-to-civilization outdoors areas - and you become immobilized, you're stuck until a) someone else happens across you - which could happen if you're actually on a fairly well traveled route, b) you don't return on time and your friends/family initiate a search - and hopefully you gave them an accurate trip plan and didn't deviate from the route, or c) press the SOS button on your PLB or satellite communicator. Depending on your condition, any additional delay of hours or days means it'll probably end up as a body recovery instead of a rescue. If it were me, I'd want get get help ASAP if I needed it. (Even if you're experienced, trained, equipped, and prepared, things can happen...)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
iamthepieman 5y ago
If you don't have a PLB, the least you should be doing is telling someone close to you where you are going to be parking, how long you expect to be out, when you plan to return and what your expected route is. If any of that information changes then try to update your contact person before you commit to a different route. Go over what to do (for both you and your POC) if you don't report in within a certain time after your expected return.
kevinpet 5y ago
I'm confused. If you are talking about wilderness, I maybe agree. But then you talk about the AT. If you are hiking on marked trails, you don't need to go drop $200 on electronics before you should feel safe going for a walk in the woods. You don't even need hiking boots, SPF 50 wicking t-shirts, or merino wool underwear.
- qzw 5y ago
  People wonder off the marked trails, get disoriented, go further away from the trails. Next thing you know they’re missing for days. The problem is that the more inexperienced someone is, the more likely such a scenario is to happen.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  People lose track of the AT and die fairly routinely. Here's one from last year: https://www.macon.com/news/state/georgia/article240395571.html https://www.macon.com/news/state/georgia/article240395571.ht... Hiking a marked trail isn't as risky as summiting Everest, but it's not like walking through Ikea either. PLBs are a touch pricy, but I'd at least carry a FRS radio.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    I'd at least carry a FRS radio. Is FRS really useful for calling for help in the woods? You'd be lucky to get 1/2 mile of range, and you have to have someone nearby listening on your channel without privacy codes enabled. Do people even use FRS when hiking? A whistle might have less range, but everyone within earshot will hear it. A ham radio with a repeater list would likely be more useful than FRS... Or maybe GMRS, but those repeaters are less common.
    - sbierwagen 5y ago
      A ham radio requires a ham license to use.
      - Johnny555 5y ago
SkittyDog 5y ago
Carrying a PLB or satellite communicator is not a bad idea, but there is a huge obstacle for many people to obtain one: They cost a fair bit of money. I believe the Inreach devices are ~$400USD, plus a minimum subscription of ~12/month. That's not realistic for a lot of people. People have been successfully & safely travelling the wilderness for centuries without these devices. If you have solid wilderness skills, and take appropriate precautions, there is nothing unsafe about exploring the wilderness, with or without a PLB.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Yeah. I certainly won't argue against anyone carrying one. But arguing that not doing so is the equivalent of not having a map and compass (especially in areas you're not familiar with) is idiotic.
- s0rce 5y ago
  Inreach is about $300 and you can get a monthly plan. Cost is coming down but still expensive for a lot of people just going for a local hike. I carry mine on all my hikes after using my friends on a week long backpacking trip in the BC coast range. Was nice to be able to check in with my wife and also get in touch with the float plane pilot who was coming to get us.
- supernovae 5y ago
  An iphone costs more and the monthly plan is more expensive and when you figure a PLB is insurance against a life or death situation, the 400 pricing or monthly fee is nothing... Plus, you can find simple ones used... spot beacons have a pretty healthy after market
- wp381640 5y ago
  I know people with _boats_ who go out all the time and won't shell out for Iridium
kortilla 5y ago
The Garmin mini/inreach are not cheap. Poor people hike too. It’s one of the few things you can do with low income.

ghaff 5y ago

I just really have a lot of trouble with that comment. I originally downvoted--but then I didn't--but I just have trouble with the concept that I must always take active measures to have people rescue me just really bothers me. I'd probably consider a PLB if I were soloing in a remote area but I doubt if I would on the AT in general. And certainly don't have (or would consider) in routine local outside areas.

disabled 5y ago
If hiking on a trail even on the outskirts, EMS can have trouble locating you. I am from the Pacific Northwest, and I am quite hardy. You carry one so that you can be located in an emergency.
- ghaff 5y ago
  I'm sure it's just a difference in philosophy and, perhaps, age. And, yes, I've done a lot of hiking in the PNW although I don't live there. Just not something I'm interested in generally.
verall 5y ago
The parent comment explains what a PLB is an how to get to them. If you're experienced enough to judge the risks yourself, it's just advice. Noone requires you to take a PLB, water bottle, or buddy, but all would raise your chance of survival in an emergency.
- ghaff 5y ago
  The parent wrote "there is no reason to be going into wilderness in 2020 (or 2021)." The implication was that it was irresponsible to do otherwise. I agree with your comment generally though. If you are experienced enough to make choices you can do so. Including doing solo activities. (Though I might draw the line at things like not taking water which are bad practices in many circumstances.)
  - aksss 5y ago
    I think a lot of it is that the safety nets let people be more careless, and proper skills aren’t considered prerequisites. I grew up with the ethos that you never want to be that guy who has to get rescued from the wilderness (and I still believe that). To me, having to get rescued is a mark of severe embarrassment - not only for your own failure in the outdoors but what you’ve now obligated others to risk in the rescue attempt. That means you better have skills, be hardy, and be prepared for shit and not assume you can just “eject” from your situation with an sos button. Things change when you get your own dependent family though, and the cheapness of a locator device like an inreach make them very cheap insurance for stupid mistakes if you still want to engage in lone multi-day wilderness excursions. I really don’t think it should change anything in risk calculation and preparedness though. If you have to use it, it still represents a complete fail for you as an outdoorsman. The downside is that their easy availability makes people more likely to engage SAR when they should just suck it up or not have gone out in the first place.
    - disabled 5y ago
      > I really don’t think it should change anything in risk calculation and preparedness though. If you have to use it, it still represents a complete fail for you as an outdoorsman. The downside is that their easy availability makes people more likely to engage SAR when they should just suck it up or not have gone out in the first place. Thank you! Exactly and agreed 100%. Even when out-and-about in public in the city, I can deploy it in a few seconds (either via the device itself or my Garmin watch), in addition to calling 911 for someone in distress, so the exact GPS coordinates of the incident are shared. This ensures that no delays occur with rescue on my end. I am big on preparing and I look needing SAR operations as a huge systemic failure. It is true that all it takes is one mistake to end up in such a situation. As I said, I have health conditions. Backpacking for days in the wilderness (no matter how prepared or "responsible" I may be) is not possible and is unsafe in my particular situation. I can go on day hikes though, generally, without issue with adequate preparation. For people criticizing the use of such technology: Have you called 911 before for an incident where there are not a lot of addresses/cross-streets/markings, such as at a national park? Do you realize that SAR resources are precious and extremely limited? Do you realize that SAR operations can be quite dangerous, even for the well trained and seasoned professional? I should point out that I also spend time on the water, and I take my Garmin inReach Mini with me, in the inReach Mini Dive Case. I have it clipped to my lifejacket with a carabiner clip, which I wear at all times during water activities. It should be pointed out that the Garmin inReach Mini is useless underwater, as electrical signals cannot be transmitted through water, which is something everyone should be aware of. The same goes likewise for any PLB. When on the water, the inReach Mini likewise works best with a smartphone (iPhone, in my case), which I keep in a dive case, also clipped to my jacket. Thankfully, I have never had to use my Garmin inReach Mini. I don't "hope" it never happens. I plan as much as possible, to avoid a SAR situation at all costs. I also look at it as a responsible thing to have, both for myself, and also in case someone nearby is in trouble.
jonah 5y ago
If you're outside of cellphone range - which is pretty feasible even in near-to-civilization outdoors areas - and you become immobilized, you're stuck until a) someone else happens across you - which could happen if you're actually on a fairly well traveled route, b) you don't return on time and your friends/family initiate a search - and hopefully you gave them an accurate trip plan and didn't deviate from the route, or c) press the SOS button on your PLB or satellite communicator. Depending on your condition, any additional delay of hours or days means it'll probably end up as a body recovery instead of a rescue. If it were me, I'd want get get help ASAP if I needed it. (Even if you're experienced, trained, equipped, and prepared, things can happen...)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

iamthepieman 5y ago

If you don't have a PLB, the least you should be doing is telling someone close to you where you are going to be parking, how long you expect to be out, when you plan to return and what your expected route is. If any of that information changes then try to update your contact person before you commit to a different route. Go over what to do (for both you and your POC) if you don't report in within a certain time after your expected return.

kevinpet 5y ago

I'm confused. If you are talking about wilderness, I maybe agree. But then you talk about the AT. If you are hiking on marked trails, you don't need to go drop $200 on electronics before you should feel safe going for a walk in the woods. You don't even need hiking boots, SPF 50 wicking t-shirts, or merino wool underwear.

qzw 5y ago
People wonder off the marked trails, get disoriented, go further away from the trails. Next thing you know they’re missing for days. The problem is that the more inexperienced someone is, the more likely such a scenario is to happen.
sbierwagen 5y ago
People lose track of the AT and die fairly routinely. Here's one from last year: https://www.macon.com/news/state/georgia/article240395571.html https://www.macon.com/news/state/georgia/article240395571.ht... Hiking a marked trail isn't as risky as summiting Everest, but it's not like walking through Ikea either. PLBs are a touch pricy, but I'd at least carry a FRS radio.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  I'd at least carry a FRS radio. Is FRS really useful for calling for help in the woods? You'd be lucky to get 1/2 mile of range, and you have to have someone nearby listening on your channel without privacy codes enabled. Do people even use FRS when hiking? A whistle might have less range, but everyone within earshot will hear it. A ham radio with a repeater list would likely be more useful than FRS... Or maybe GMRS, but those repeaters are less common.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    A ham radio requires a ham license to use.
    - Johnny555 5y ago

SkittyDog 5y ago

Carrying a PLB or satellite communicator is not a bad idea, but there is a huge obstacle for many people to obtain one: They cost a fair bit of money. I believe the Inreach devices are ~$400USD, plus a minimum subscription of ~12/month. That's not realistic for a lot of people. People have been successfully & safely travelling the wilderness for centuries without these devices. If you have solid wilderness skills, and take appropriate precautions, there is nothing unsafe about exploring the wilderness, with or without a PLB.

ghaff 5y ago
Yeah. I certainly won't argue against anyone carrying one. But arguing that not doing so is the equivalent of not having a map and compass (especially in areas you're not familiar with) is idiotic.
s0rce 5y ago
Inreach is about $300 and you can get a monthly plan. Cost is coming down but still expensive for a lot of people just going for a local hike. I carry mine on all my hikes after using my friends on a week long backpacking trip in the BC coast range. Was nice to be able to check in with my wife and also get in touch with the float plane pilot who was coming to get us.
supernovae 5y ago
An iphone costs more and the monthly plan is more expensive and when you figure a PLB is insurance against a life or death situation, the 400 pricing or monthly fee is nothing... Plus, you can find simple ones used... spot beacons have a pretty healthy after market
wp381640 5y ago
I know people with _boats_ who go out all the time and won't shell out for Iridium

kortilla 5y ago

The Garmin mini/inreach are not cheap. Poor people hike too. It’s one of the few things you can do with low income.