29 ms·

I think the problem is that VAR for offsides errs only in the direction of call-things-offsides-that-shouldn't-be. I can't think of a time where it gave a goal

by bl0b 5y ago

I think the problem is that VAR for offsides errs only in the direction of call-things-offsides-that-shouldn't-be. I can't think of a time where it gave a goal that I though should have been called back, but so many times was a goal called back that seems like it shouldn't have.

LanceH 5y ago
It's actually better than it used to be though. I can't even count the number of goals and breakaways that were called back by the linesman because surely that guy who is open by 5 yards was offside. The current interpretation of the rule appears to take "level with" the 2nd to last defender to be a zone of infinitesimal width. So having your body lined up with the defender's isn't enough to be level with if a pinky finger is extended beyond them. A player could have his entire torso behind the defender and be offside if his arm or toe extends beyond the defender. The defender could literally (by any reasonable definition) be between the forward and the goal and it would still be offside. It's like they saw the NFL's ruling on what is a catch and thought it was a contest. I actually like VAR, because referees and linesmen preferred to call back goals rather than risk an offside goal be allowed. So it is progress, but they wrote the rule to be a mechanical judgement, rather than a human one (as rugby does).
- mrunkel 5y ago
  > he current interpretation of the rule appears to take "level with" the 2nd to last defender to be a zone of infinitesimal width. So having your body lined up with the defender's isn't enough to be level with if a pinky finger is extended beyond them. A player could have his entire torso behind the defender and be offside if his arm or toe extends beyond the defender. The defender could literally (by any reasonable definition) be between the forward and the goal and it would still be offside. Only parts of the body that can score goal are used to judge offside. So, pinkies or arms don’t count. And I don’t understand what you mean about “level with.” What should level with mean in your mind? No more than x cm ahead? Something is either equal something else or it’s not.
  - LanceH 5y ago
    Let's say a toe sticks out past a defender. You're saying he's ahead. But he's also level with at the same time, and possibly even behind (closer to his own goal). A player is not a single point of existence. If the bodies are overlapping, it should be level with and called so by a human. cm precision on whether the ball passes the goal is fine, but the current offside is absurd -- his toe was a cm ahead when the rest of his body was not. Also, this crazy obsession with precision and treating people like points on a plane ignores the lack of precision in when the ball is struck, or exactly what frame you're able to pull to view an image. Meanwhile, you have dying athletes being fed miraculous water bottles to achieve full recovery. While a whole different argument in itself, it is pretentious to think the game is built around strict adherence to accuracy and precision. In short, treating players as infinitesimal points, means that nobody is ever "level with". It ceases to have any meaning at all. I would also argument that a whole body's worth of overlap is more "level with" than 1cm sticking out is "being ahead" -- at least if "level with" is to have any meaning at all. But they have chosen their interpretation, presumably to make it unassailable -- I get to dislike it and think that it's bad. I guess that having an entirely technical definition helps with all the corrupt bodies involved in the sport when it comes to international competition.

by bl0b 5y ago

LanceH 5y ago

It's actually better than it used to be though. I can't even count the number of goals and breakaways that were called back by the linesman because surely that guy who is open by 5 yards was offside. The current interpretation of the rule appears to take "level with" the 2nd to last defender to be a zone of infinitesimal width. So having your body lined up with the defender's isn't enough to be level with if a pinky finger is extended beyond them. A player could have his entire torso behind the defender and be offside if his arm or toe extends beyond the defender. The defender could literally (by any reasonable definition) be between the forward and the goal and it would still be offside. It's like they saw the NFL's ruling on what is a catch and thought it was a contest. I actually like VAR, because referees and linesmen preferred to call back goals rather than risk an offside goal be allowed. So it is progress, but they wrote the rule to be a mechanical judgement, rather than a human one (as rugby does).

mrunkel 5y ago
> he current interpretation of the rule appears to take "level with" the 2nd to last defender to be a zone of infinitesimal width. So having your body lined up with the defender's isn't enough to be level with if a pinky finger is extended beyond them. A player could have his entire torso behind the defender and be offside if his arm or toe extends beyond the defender. The defender could literally (by any reasonable definition) be between the forward and the goal and it would still be offside. Only parts of the body that can score goal are used to judge offside. So, pinkies or arms don’t count. And I don’t understand what you mean about “level with.” What should level with mean in your mind? No more than x cm ahead? Something is either equal something else or it’s not.
- LanceH 5y ago
  Let's say a toe sticks out past a defender. You're saying he's ahead. But he's also level with at the same time, and possibly even behind (closer to his own goal). A player is not a single point of existence. If the bodies are overlapping, it should be level with and called so by a human. cm precision on whether the ball passes the goal is fine, but the current offside is absurd -- his toe was a cm ahead when the rest of his body was not. Also, this crazy obsession with precision and treating people like points on a plane ignores the lack of precision in when the ball is struck, or exactly what frame you're able to pull to view an image. Meanwhile, you have dying athletes being fed miraculous water bottles to achieve full recovery. While a whole different argument in itself, it is pretentious to think the game is built around strict adherence to accuracy and precision. In short, treating players as infinitesimal points, means that nobody is ever "level with". It ceases to have any meaning at all. I would also argument that a whole body's worth of overlap is more "level with" than 1cm sticking out is "being ahead" -- at least if "level with" is to have any meaning at all. But they have chosen their interpretation, presumably to make it unassailable -- I get to dislike it and think that it's bad. I guess that having an entirely technical definition helps with all the corrupt bodies involved in the sport when it comes to international competition.