5 ms·

DIY plastic recyclers: open-source machines for shredding plastic [audio]

turnerc 6y ago
Yes there is a plastics waste problem, but the real problem is that it cannot be infinitely recycled in the current process that this is talking about. Additionally at 03:25 The problem is hit on the head in another way, you still have to sort and clean the plastic before these machines can start.
- bacon_waffle 6y ago
  A large part of all this is about raising awareness, not so much about actually solving the plastics problem through recycling. More people having hands-on experience with the realities of recycling is a good thing.
  - turnerc 6y ago
    Indeed, I commend this project for raising awareness but there can only be so much awareness about a problem without a solution currently.
    - bacon_waffle 6y ago
      The problem is single use plastic, and there is a solution: use less of it. Raising awareness of the difficulty in recycling plastic will help reduce the demand for it. Or, who knows, maybe we'll see an even better solution emerge from a makerspace working with Precious Plastics.
- codeecan 6y ago
  > sort and clean the plastic before I always wondered if there was a way to use QR codes, if they would still be scannable after crushing
  - Havoc 6y ago
    After you convince suppliers not to bond materials together that need to be separated.
blacksmith_tb 6y ago
Lots of info on Precious Plastic at their site[1]. The machines are just a little too spendy / complex for individuals, but it seems like lots of hackerspaces could go there. 1: https://preciousplastic.com/ https://preciousplastic.com/
- imglorp 6y ago
  You don't actually need the machines for some tasks. Sometimes an oven and a mold are enough to get a blank for shaping. Eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DILMMwH04a8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DILMMwH04a8
  - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
    That's cool to see (though they have a pretty well-equipped workshop), but clearly the basic principle of shredding up HDPE and baking it to melt should work for almost anyone.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    The next video after that one plays shows someone melting HDPE in a tin can. I'm betting that person doesn't know about the plastic lining on the can.
Animats 6y ago
"In 2019 the Precious Plastic Bazar processed more than €200,000 in sales." That's not serious plastic recycling. This is serious plastic recycling.[1] 3 big plants in the US. California, Texas, and Pennsylvania. Each plant is about the size of a WalMart SuperCenter. Plastic bottles go in, and food-grade plastic pellets ready for use in making new bottles come out. Each plant can do a few billion bottles per year. This is not a job for local, woke, participatory do it yourself. This is a job for heavy machinery. That machinery exists. San Francisco and Milpitas have the biggest recycling plants in the SF Bay Area. [1] http://www.carbonliterecycling.com/ http://www.carbonliterecycling.com/
- hinkley 6y ago
  The most terrifying thing Youtube has put into my suggestions is videos of people 'making their own diesel' by melting down plastic. I can't begin to imagine what sort of PAHs those people are inhaling during the making and especially the burning process. Perhaps the plants don't actually have to be the size of a Walmart, but the engineering is still pretty big. I wouldn't mind seeing smaller regional centers using mature tools.
  - abakker 6y ago
    I love DIY, but man, that is not a good idea. Right there with “make your own amalgam fillings” and “3 weird hacks for paint stripper”. YouTube has some good content, but we all need to try on common sense, too.
  - Animats 6y ago
    Yes. It's thinking similar to the backyard steel mills of Mao's "Great Leap Forward". 600,000 backyard steel mills for 11 million tons of steel per year.[1] Slightly more than the single U.S. Steel plant in Gary, Indiana. Some things scale really well. Recycling is one of them. [1] https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/china-1900-to-1976/the-great-leap-forward/ https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1...
- elil17 6y ago
  To me the benefit of a project like this is that people realize that recycling doesn’t stop when they throw something in a blue bin. Hopefully people see just how impractical plastic recycling is and it motivates voters and policy makers to stop accepting recycling efforts as an acceptable remedy to environmental problems
hahamrfunnyguy 6y ago
"There's an obvious solution to the plastic problem...recycle more plastic." No. The obvious solution is to use less plastic. There is low hanging fruit such as single-use items that can be made from other materials. Most plastics aren't recyclable.
- riggsdk 6y ago
  Also even if you have two recyclable plastics, if you mix them together they can become un-recyclable.
- TylerE 6y ago
  Yes, this was literally the mantra drilled into us... "reduce, reuse, recycle". in that order
- spodek 6y ago
  Future generations will look at most of the plastic we create the way we look at asbestos or second-hand smoke. Yes, there's some benefit but not worth the cost. They will recoil at how long we took to wean ourselves from the addiction, especially since their bloodstreams will contain more plastic than ours. If we make it.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    They will use abundant cheap energy to clean the environment, recycling plastic at a chemical level.
- aphroz 6y ago
  What about this project: https://m.facebook.com/WeArePLASTICPeople/ https://m.facebook.com/WeArePLASTICPeople/ They collect all kind of plastic, melt it together and make furniture out of it.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  I almost feel like we're slowly reverting back to the "old ways". If people really want something disposable, they need to look at what used to be practiced in places like Asia and Africa - for instance using banana leaves as plates (https://www.wikihow.com/Eat-Food-on-a-Banana-Leaf https://www.wikihow.com/Eat-Food-on-a-Banana-Leaf) or clay cups for beverages (https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2016/10/26/kolkatas-age-old-tradition-of-bhar-clay-cups-of-tea/ https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2016/10/26/kolkatas-age-ol...). Or, they should not seek the disposable and use more durable items. But that may require a bit of a culture shift - for instance, maybe grocery stores should let you bring your own containers to fill up with things like oil, grains, milk, etc. This will run into our overly strict health codes and societal risk aversion, but we need to perhaps consider that there is less risk through that lifestyle than with filling oceans with plastic.
anon776 6y ago
We should only sell plastic items in states that can truly recycle them. If you sell your stuff in a type 5 container but the state only can handle type 1. Then GTFO.
- zizee 6y ago
  The cost of recycling (soup to nuts, collection, cleaning, sorting) should be built into the costs of using this stuff. Plastic is only used in a really wasteful/damaging way because the costs are externalized, making it the cheapest option. If manufacturers had to pay the real cost, they would quickly start packaging their products in alternative manners because they are cost effective. Cleanup should probably also be included
kmeisthax 6y ago
My impression was that plastic recycling was cost-prohibitive, not physically impossible; and that pretty much all plastic recycling was a greenwashing campaign. If you can't make recycled plastic cheaper than virgin, then nobody will actually use it, or at best you can make it a compliance item like EVs used to be. The industry will not pick up it's plastic trash unless you make them do it, or make it worth their while to do it.

Yes there is a plastics waste problem, but the real problem is that it cannot be infinitely recycled in the current process that this is talking about. Additionally at 03:25 The problem is hit on the head in another way, you still have to sort and clean the plastic before these machines can start.

bacon_waffle 6y ago
A large part of all this is about raising awareness, not so much about actually solving the plastics problem through recycling. More people having hands-on experience with the realities of recycling is a good thing.
- turnerc 6y ago
  Indeed, I commend this project for raising awareness but there can only be so much awareness about a problem without a solution currently.
  - bacon_waffle 6y ago
    The problem is single use plastic, and there is a solution: use less of it. Raising awareness of the difficulty in recycling plastic will help reduce the demand for it. Or, who knows, maybe we'll see an even better solution emerge from a makerspace working with Precious Plastics.
codeecan 6y ago
> sort and clean the plastic before I always wondered if there was a way to use QR codes, if they would still be scannable after crushing
- Havoc 6y ago
  After you convince suppliers not to bond materials together that need to be separated.

blacksmith_tb 6y ago

Lots of info on Precious Plastic at their site[1]. The machines are just a little too spendy / complex for individuals, but it seems like lots of hackerspaces could go there. 1: https://preciousplastic.com/ https://preciousplastic.com/

imglorp 6y ago
You don't actually need the machines for some tasks. Sometimes an oven and a mold are enough to get a blank for shaping. Eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DILMMwH04a8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DILMMwH04a8
- blacksmith_tb 6y ago
  That's cool to see (though they have a pretty well-equipped workshop), but clearly the basic principle of shredding up HDPE and baking it to melt should work for almost anyone.
- hinkley 6y ago
  The next video after that one plays shows someone melting HDPE in a tin can. I'm betting that person doesn't know about the plastic lining on the can.

Animats 6y ago

"In 2019 the Precious Plastic Bazar processed more than €200,000 in sales." That's not serious plastic recycling. This is serious plastic recycling.[1] 3 big plants in the US. California, Texas, and Pennsylvania. Each plant is about the size of a WalMart SuperCenter. Plastic bottles go in, and food-grade plastic pellets ready for use in making new bottles come out. Each plant can do a few billion bottles per year. This is not a job for local, woke, participatory do it yourself. This is a job for heavy machinery. That machinery exists. San Francisco and Milpitas have the biggest recycling plants in the SF Bay Area. [1] http://www.carbonliterecycling.com/ http://www.carbonliterecycling.com/

hinkley 6y ago
The most terrifying thing Youtube has put into my suggestions is videos of people 'making their own diesel' by melting down plastic. I can't begin to imagine what sort of PAHs those people are inhaling during the making and especially the burning process. Perhaps the plants don't actually have to be the size of a Walmart, but the engineering is still pretty big. I wouldn't mind seeing smaller regional centers using mature tools.
- abakker 6y ago
  I love DIY, but man, that is not a good idea. Right there with “make your own amalgam fillings” and “3 weird hacks for paint stripper”. YouTube has some good content, but we all need to try on common sense, too.
- Animats 6y ago
  Yes. It's thinking similar to the backyard steel mills of Mao's "Great Leap Forward". 600,000 backyard steel mills for 11 million tons of steel per year.[1] Slightly more than the single U.S. Steel plant in Gary, Indiana. Some things scale really well. Recycling is one of them. [1] https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/china-1900-to-1976/the-great-leap-forward/ https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1...
elil17 6y ago
To me the benefit of a project like this is that people realize that recycling doesn’t stop when they throw something in a blue bin. Hopefully people see just how impractical plastic recycling is and it motivates voters and policy makers to stop accepting recycling efforts as an acceptable remedy to environmental problems

hahamrfunnyguy 6y ago

"There's an obvious solution to the plastic problem...recycle more plastic." No. The obvious solution is to use less plastic. There is low hanging fruit such as single-use items that can be made from other materials. Most plastics aren't recyclable.

riggsdk 6y ago
Also even if you have two recyclable plastics, if you mix them together they can become un-recyclable.
TylerE 6y ago
Yes, this was literally the mantra drilled into us... "reduce, reuse, recycle". in that order
spodek 6y ago
Future generations will look at most of the plastic we create the way we look at asbestos or second-hand smoke. Yes, there's some benefit but not worth the cost. They will recoil at how long we took to wean ourselves from the addiction, especially since their bloodstreams will contain more plastic than ours. If we make it.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  They will use abundant cheap energy to clean the environment, recycling plastic at a chemical level.
aphroz 6y ago
What about this project: https://m.facebook.com/WeArePLASTICPeople/ https://m.facebook.com/WeArePLASTICPeople/ They collect all kind of plastic, melt it together and make furniture out of it.
throwawaysea 6y ago
I almost feel like we're slowly reverting back to the "old ways". If people really want something disposable, they need to look at what used to be practiced in places like Asia and Africa - for instance using banana leaves as plates (https://www.wikihow.com/Eat-Food-on-a-Banana-Leaf https://www.wikihow.com/Eat-Food-on-a-Banana-Leaf) or clay cups for beverages (https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2016/10/26/kolkatas-age-old-tradition-of-bhar-clay-cups-of-tea/ https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2016/10/26/kolkatas-age-ol...). Or, they should not seek the disposable and use more durable items. But that may require a bit of a culture shift - for instance, maybe grocery stores should let you bring your own containers to fill up with things like oil, grains, milk, etc. This will run into our overly strict health codes and societal risk aversion, but we need to perhaps consider that there is less risk through that lifestyle than with filling oceans with plastic.

anon776 6y ago

We should only sell plastic items in states that can truly recycle them. If you sell your stuff in a type 5 container but the state only can handle type 1. Then GTFO.

zizee 6y ago
The cost of recycling (soup to nuts, collection, cleaning, sorting) should be built into the costs of using this stuff. Plastic is only used in a really wasteful/damaging way because the costs are externalized, making it the cheapest option. If manufacturers had to pay the real cost, they would quickly start packaging their products in alternative manners because they are cost effective. Cleanup should probably also be included

kmeisthax 6y ago

My impression was that plastic recycling was cost-prohibitive, not physically impossible; and that pretty much all plastic recycling was a greenwashing campaign. If you can't make recycled plastic cheaper than virgin, then nobody will actually use it, or at best you can make it a compliance item like EVs used to be. The industry will not pick up it's plastic trash unless you make them do it, or make it worth their while to do it.