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I agree that we're doing things that harm the planet, but I downvoted you because it's more complicated than just "there are too many people", and "We're cuttin

I agree that we're doing things that harm the planet, but I downvoted you because it's more complicated than just "there are too many people", and "We're cutting down forests". If you look at the advanced countries, they are often the ones who exploited their resources and grew in size early. Britain, for instance, slashed their forests generations ago to get ahead. The US used to shoot herds of bison from trains. Now Britain and the US wag a finger at less developed countries for consuming the forests and ecosystems in their countries. Similar with population growth and the concept of 'overpopulation'. If you assert we have overpopulation, you have to assert how you'll address it, and there's no way to do that without saying, "Some group of people doesn't get to have kids." That seems like a really bad thing to say. I'm incredibly lefty, a self described socialist and eco-socialist, but I believe that we need to think differently than just "those people over there are destroying their environments and having too many babies!" We could start at home, transforming our own economy and society to live less exploitatively. We could reduce our own use of meat and dairy, for instance. We could ensure we had adequate housing for everyone, and medical care for everyone, both of which would lead to less waste. We could strictly limit single use plastics, remove older dams to improve fish stocks, set aside more land for forests, etc.

Spooky23 6y ago
The overpopulation crowd is like a meta-NIMBY. People with high income, “concern” for various problems, and who are amused by their toys and aren’t family oriented usually fall into that position. Of course, like all NIMBY types, their consumption of air and Brazilian hardwoods is just fine.
- dint 6y ago
  This is a straw man. There are absolutely people who are concerned about both overpopulation, and individual overconsumption. I am one. I limit my personal carbon footprint. I do not own a car (and hopefully never will). I rarely eat meat. I live in a cheap, inefficient apartment because I'm living on a student income, but I keep the heat low to try to limit my energy consumption. I probably won't have kids, because it wouldn't be consistent with my concerns about climate change to bring another high-consuming American into the world.
  - kubanczyk 6y ago
    Just for the sake of fun and clashing some worldviews, I am quite concerned that the population size will be shrinking. As soon as some nation makes contraceptives economically available, the native population growth goes negative. Do you know many families with three children? Because that seems like a minimal number, no? Immigrants who (1) come when younger, and further (2) have more children mask this problem a bit, but their supply is limited. (Sorry for my insensitivity, I'm not from The West myself.) The easy contraceptives will get to even poorest countries in a generation or two. There will be a Big Shrink before the narrative of fertility takes hold again.

Spooky23 6y ago

The overpopulation crowd is like a meta-NIMBY. People with high income, “concern” for various problems, and who are amused by their toys and aren’t family oriented usually fall into that position. Of course, like all NIMBY types, their consumption of air and Brazilian hardwoods is just fine.

dint 6y ago
This is a straw man. There are absolutely people who are concerned about both overpopulation, and individual overconsumption. I am one. I limit my personal carbon footprint. I do not own a car (and hopefully never will). I rarely eat meat. I live in a cheap, inefficient apartment because I'm living on a student income, but I keep the heat low to try to limit my energy consumption. I probably won't have kids, because it wouldn't be consistent with my concerns about climate change to bring another high-consuming American into the world.
- kubanczyk 6y ago
  Just for the sake of fun and clashing some worldviews, I am quite concerned that the population size will be shrinking. As soon as some nation makes contraceptives economically available, the native population growth goes negative. Do you know many families with three children? Because that seems like a minimal number, no? Immigrants who (1) come when younger, and further (2) have more children mask this problem a bit, but their supply is limited. (Sorry for my insensitivity, I'm not from The West myself.) The easy contraceptives will get to even poorest countries in a generation or two. There will be a Big Shrink before the narrative of fertility takes hold again.