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I think people should be generally afraid of any substance that can I give long term personality changes with just a few doses, sometimes even with a doctor's h

I think people should be generally afraid of any substance that can I give long term personality changes with just a few doses, sometimes even with a doctor's help.

peterlk 6y ago
I see this argument a lot, and I think it is more hollow than it appears. I am certainly not the same person now that I was 10 years ago. Indeed, I am different than the person I was 1 year ago. Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I watched a movie once that made me deeply depressed for weeks. Thin may have permanently changed my personality too. Should we ban movies because they make people feel and think things that they haven't felt and thought before? (That's as close as I'll get to cancel culture uproar in this post)
- LegitShady 6y ago
  >Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I think your rebuttal is more hollow than it appears. It ultimately ascribes equal value to all change, and all change no matter how poorly controlled.
BelmundoRegal 6y ago
I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. I encourage you to take a moment to get acquainted with what is being done clinically ( which to be honest is not what I was referring to ) ; Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y Matthew W. Johnson is a professor and psychedelics researcher at Johns Hopkins. I could accept your statement with "afraid" switched for "prudent" but even then, it turns out Psilocybin is your friend.
- LegitShady 6y ago
  > I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. You've calculated statistics for things you've made up. >Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145 Please please don't quote podcasts as research, and giving me 3.5 hours of homework listening to understand your point is poor communication and ensures the maximum amount of resistance to understanding what you're trying to say.
  - BelmundoRegal 6y ago
    I did put a rough number on it but I must be pretty close. I reckon it might sound a bit rude which It wasn't intended to be. As for the podcast, I was proposing it as a gateway into this field, not as a source to substantiate my general point although it does. My point is otherwise based on first hand experience and a large body of anecdotal evidence. You summarily dismissed one of the most promising array of treatments for people going through some rough stuff without any evidence or submitting any source yourself. You're right about the poor communication bit though and thank you. Here's a 3:57 minute cut-off [0] from that same podcast, dealing specifically with psylocibin interventions. > Please please don't quote podcasts as research Well, this is a podcast with a cutting edge researcher ... I think it's fair game, and I didn't call it research. I can assure you the general idea we're discussing is worth some of your attention, especially if you or someone you know is dealing with just about any type of serious personal issue. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJpX5y5w8tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJpX5y5w8tQ
zepto 6y ago
Afraid? Pretty much everything we do affects us. I’d say choice of jobs and schools has had a giant effect on me, much of it not what I would choose. Make a careful, informed decision. But there is no need to be ‘afraid’.
- LegitShady 6y ago
  Not all change is equal, not all change is equally controlled. Pretending it is because change occurs sabotages your ability to categorize, analyze, and ultimately judge change. Most people are not qualified to and cannot make careful informed decisions about the way drugs affect you.
  - zepto 6y ago
    > Pretending it is because change occurs sabotages your ability to categorize, analyze, and ultimately judge change. Who is pretending this? > Most people are not qualified to and cannot make careful informed decisions about the way drugs affect you. Who is qualified in your opinion?
overflow897 6y ago
I think people should be generally excited by the prospect of resolving long term psychological issues with just a few doses.
- LegitShady 6y ago
  I agree, for people with long term physiological/psychological issues this might be a huge boon, and may be a better alternative than common anti depressants. But I know many people who have done psylocybin for fun who are probably changed because of it, in an uncontrolled fashion.

I think people should be generally afraid of any substance that can I give long term personality changes with just a few doses, sometimes even with a doctor's help.

peterlk 6y ago

I see this argument a lot, and I think it is more hollow than it appears. I am certainly not the same person now that I was 10 years ago. Indeed, I am different than the person I was 1 year ago. Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I watched a movie once that made me deeply depressed for weeks. Thin may have permanently changed my personality too. Should we ban movies because they make people feel and think things that they haven't felt and thought before? (That's as close as I'll get to cancel culture uproar in this post)

LegitShady 6y ago
>Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I think your rebuttal is more hollow than it appears. It ultimately ascribes equal value to all change, and all change no matter how poorly controlled.

BelmundoRegal 6y ago

I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. I encourage you to take a moment to get acquainted with what is being done clinically ( which to be honest is not what I was referring to ) ; Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y Matthew W. Johnson is a professor and psychedelics researcher at Johns Hopkins. I could accept your statement with "afraid" switched for "prudent" but even then, it turns out Psilocybin is your friend.

LegitShady 6y ago
> I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. You've calculated statistics for things you've made up. >Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145 Please please don't quote podcasts as research, and giving me 3.5 hours of homework listening to understand your point is poor communication and ensures the maximum amount of resistance to understanding what you're trying to say.
- BelmundoRegal 6y ago
  I did put a rough number on it but I must be pretty close. I reckon it might sound a bit rude which It wasn't intended to be. As for the podcast, I was proposing it as a gateway into this field, not as a source to substantiate my general point although it does. My point is otherwise based on first hand experience and a large body of anecdotal evidence. You summarily dismissed one of the most promising array of treatments for people going through some rough stuff without any evidence or submitting any source yourself. You're right about the poor communication bit though and thank you. Here's a 3:57 minute cut-off [0] from that same podcast, dealing specifically with psylocibin interventions. > Please please don't quote podcasts as research Well, this is a podcast with a cutting edge researcher ... I think it's fair game, and I didn't call it research. I can assure you the general idea we're discussing is worth some of your attention, especially if you or someone you know is dealing with just about any type of serious personal issue. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJpX5y5w8tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJpX5y5w8tQ

zepto 6y ago

Afraid? Pretty much everything we do affects us. I’d say choice of jobs and schools has had a giant effect on me, much of it not what I would choose. Make a careful, informed decision. But there is no need to be ‘afraid’.

LegitShady 6y ago
Not all change is equal, not all change is equally controlled. Pretending it is because change occurs sabotages your ability to categorize, analyze, and ultimately judge change. Most people are not qualified to and cannot make careful informed decisions about the way drugs affect you.
- zepto 6y ago
  > Pretending it is because change occurs sabotages your ability to categorize, analyze, and ultimately judge change. Who is pretending this? > Most people are not qualified to and cannot make careful informed decisions about the way drugs affect you. Who is qualified in your opinion?

overflow897 6y ago

I think people should be generally excited by the prospect of resolving long term psychological issues with just a few doses.

LegitShady 6y ago
I agree, for people with long term physiological/psychological issues this might be a huge boon, and may be a better alternative than common anti depressants. But I know many people who have done psylocybin for fun who are probably changed because of it, in an uncontrolled fashion.