3 ms·

There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons i

There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons in the same place. This is another weird aspect of the (often amateur, electronic) music production world - making something simple and obvious seem like a mysterious and unique breakthrough. This is a community that likes to use the terms “aleatoric” and “euclidian” instead of “random” and “evenly distributed”. Yes, I know the origins of those two terms but I don’t care - I eyeroll every time I hear them.

SauciestGNU 6y ago
>There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. >This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons in the same place. In this case I think Behringer directly copied the look and feel of the keystep because of its amazing success in the low budget controller space. I don't expect much innovation in the budget controller space, but this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement if "rounded corners" can be protected.
- brandonmenc 6y ago
  > this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement Then Arturia should be taking Behringer to court, right?
capableweb 6y ago
> There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. You're joking right? There are thousands of combinations of where to put things to make a clone less obvious, but obviously they didn't care to do anything of that. Have you seen them compared side-by-side? It looks like a Mark 2 version of the Keystep, except some naming changed, here's an example: https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringer-swing-keystep-black.jpg https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringe...
- brandonmenc 6y ago
  I have seen them, and I'm not joking. > There are thousands of combinations of where to put things to make a clone less obvious Disagree. This is like saying there are thousands of combinations of where to put doors on a car or volume controls on a phone. There are really only like one or two, and I doubt any of them are like, copyrightable. These are simple devices with simple features, not a single one which was invented by Arturia. If I slap an arpeggiator on a midi keyboard, do I have to put the knobs on the right hand side to not infringe on the Keystep? And at that point, can no one else put an arpeggiator in a 25-key midi keyboard because all layout combinations in that form factor are "used up?" I just don't get the outrage over this other than I think it comes from people who already hate Behringer.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    > I just don't get the outrage over this other than I think it comes from people who already hate Behringer. Then you have your first counter-point here, because I don't have Behringer, I simply think some of their practices are shady. But no hate, and I have nothing against people who chose to buy their gear. I don't want to, because of their shady practices, but that doesn't mean I hate Behringer in total. And no, if you have an arpeggiator on a midi keyboard, you don't have to place them in a different place than the Keystep. But if you have exactly the same features, and you put them in the same place, with a so similar design that consumer could be confused which one you have in front of you, then it starts getting into a territory that me myself, is not comfortable with. If you remove the Arturia and and Behringer logo together with the text on the Swing, you think most people would accurately be able to separate which one is which? I think not, and that's when you're infringing on someones copyright.

SauciestGNU 6y ago

>There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. >This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons in the same place. In this case I think Behringer directly copied the look and feel of the keystep because of its amazing success in the low budget controller space. I don't expect much innovation in the budget controller space, but this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement if "rounded corners" can be protected.

brandonmenc 6y ago
> this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement Then Arturia should be taking Behringer to court, right?

capableweb 6y ago

> There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. You're joking right? There are thousands of combinations of where to put things to make a clone less obvious, but obviously they didn't care to do anything of that. Have you seen them compared side-by-side? It looks like a Mark 2 version of the Keystep, except some naming changed, here's an example: https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringer-swing-keystep-black.jpg https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringe...

brandonmenc 6y ago
I have seen them, and I'm not joking. > There are thousands of combinations of where to put things to make a clone less obvious Disagree. This is like saying there are thousands of combinations of where to put doors on a car or volume controls on a phone. There are really only like one or two, and I doubt any of them are like, copyrightable. These are simple devices with simple features, not a single one which was invented by Arturia. If I slap an arpeggiator on a midi keyboard, do I have to put the knobs on the right hand side to not infringe on the Keystep? And at that point, can no one else put an arpeggiator in a 25-key midi keyboard because all layout combinations in that form factor are "used up?" I just don't get the outrage over this other than I think it comes from people who already hate Behringer.
- capableweb 6y ago
  > I just don't get the outrage over this other than I think it comes from people who already hate Behringer. Then you have your first counter-point here, because I don't have Behringer, I simply think some of their practices are shady. But no hate, and I have nothing against people who chose to buy their gear. I don't want to, because of their shady practices, but that doesn't mean I hate Behringer in total. And no, if you have an arpeggiator on a midi keyboard, you don't have to place them in a different place than the Keystep. But if you have exactly the same features, and you put them in the same place, with a so similar design that consumer could be confused which one you have in front of you, then it starts getting into a territory that me myself, is not comfortable with. If you remove the Arturia and and Behringer logo together with the text on the Swing, you think most people would accurately be able to separate which one is which? I think not, and that's when you're infringing on someones copyright.