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> We’re developing new automated staffing schedules that use sophisticated algorithms to rotate employees among jobs that use different muscle-tendon groups to

> We’re developing new automated staffing schedules that use sophisticated algorithms to rotate employees among jobs that use different muscle-tendon groups to decrease repetitive motion and help protect employees from MSD risks. Glossing over the "sophisticated algorithms" part, this is a welcome read and it seems to be a great way of limiting healthcare costs for new hires, but I am concerned at how "rotational" are such jobs surely manual warehouse work would be pretty similar in muscle groups used?

ctvo 5y ago
> but I am concerned at how "rotational" are such jobs surely manual warehouse work would be pretty similar in muscle groups used? It's outside of our imagination to assume there are different stations? Surely some walk more, some sort more things, some may even pick up heavy things. Edit: > Glossing over the "sophisticated algorithms" part I also want to point out that your quotes around sophisticated algorithms are unkind. Scheduling optimization base on N parameters isn't a trivial problem [0], definitely not something anyone would bat an eye at calling a sophisticated algorithm. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduling_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduling_(computing)
- turnerc 5y ago
  > It's outside of our imagination to assume there are different stations No but my naivety thought there would be more automation in place to reduce walking, sorting and picking up heavy things. Granted I have not worked in a fulfilment center and my impressions are solely based on amazon's own material but they put out jobs for operatives that just stand there all day sorting small packets, moving from this to sorting incoming large pallets sounds like it would do more damage! Edit: Thanks for the incorrect wikipedia page, how does compute resources come into play here? I'm not taking anything away from software that solves the nurses roster problem or applies simulated annealing, just merely quoting the source.
  - krapp 5y ago
    >but they put out jobs for operatives that just stand there all day sorting small packets, moving from this to sorting incoming large pallets sounds like it would do more damage Amazon's expectation is that every associate will be physically capable of doing any job necessary in the FC at a moments' notice, as business needs demand. I've seen complaints by associates that being sent to new roles like picking or palettes is painful, but unless they have an actual injury and medical waiver, Amazon doesn't make exceptions. I've stowed, picked, counted, run totes, wrapped boxes, stacked palettes, done many things in an Amazon warehouse, I know how they operate. Unless you're bleeding on the ground, you're expected to suck it up and deal. You have to remember, the purpose of automation isn't to decrease stresses on employees, it's to increase their productivity and the value that can be extracted from them per hour. When it's still cheaper and cost efficient to have a meat-robot do the work, they'll do that work.
  - stevegalla 5y ago
    > No but my naivety thought there would be more automation in place to reduce walking, sorting and picking up heavy things. Having worked in a non-Amazon fulfillment center, I’m amazed at the automation they do have. Picking and packing product once it’s in a warehouse isn’t the difficult part. Unloading and loading the shipping containers, in my experience, is far more difficult. To maximize space in shipping containers they can be packed floor to ceiling. I think about 22kg was the maximum weight of product I was unloading. Picture beverages stacked floor to ceiling in a 50 foot trailer. The optimal lifting position will happen for a small percentage of the boxes moved. You’re on your toes trying to pull product from above your head, then you’ll be bending over to pick product off the ground. Palletizing the product for transportation within the warehouse also puts you in disadvantaged positions. There will be some token training on how to lift correctly, but you will quickly be falling behind on productivity. To achieve your targets there will be times when you’ll be lifting two boxes together. Or stacking them to be more efficient. If you’re lucky and they see you working hard, they may give you a rest day by putting you on light duty once every two weeks. If you piss off the scheduler, enjoy your heavy rotations. It’s probably a good thing to reduce the human element assigning this kind of work. Also don’t forget not all product (e.g., heavy exercise equipment) arrives with intact packaging. Sometimes you’ll have to move this out by hand when a box falls apart and then repackage the material. When you’re picking product there is often powered pallet jacks to get from point a to point b, but you end up taking short cuts and jumping off before the machine has reached a complete stop. This work is still better than doing rebar or construction. At least you get a roof overhead and stay out of the elements. People who are young and need a job will do dumb things to stay employed.
gowld 5y ago
It's obvious nonsense to kick the can down the road and deflect criticism by saying "we have a new system, it will take years to prove that it's still physically harmful".
bildung 5y ago
This also has the [side?]effect of preventing unionization: If you you have a different workplace every x weeks, it's hard to build meaningful relationships with your coworkers, which often are the basis of organizing for better working conditions. Other companies already implementented this more overtly for this reason, e.g. DHL (at least) in Germany.

ctvo 5y ago

> but I am concerned at how "rotational" are such jobs surely manual warehouse work would be pretty similar in muscle groups used? It's outside of our imagination to assume there are different stations? Surely some walk more, some sort more things, some may even pick up heavy things. Edit: > Glossing over the "sophisticated algorithms" part I also want to point out that your quotes around sophisticated algorithms are unkind. Scheduling optimization base on N parameters isn't a trivial problem [0], definitely not something anyone would bat an eye at calling a sophisticated algorithm. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduling_(computing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduling_(computing)

turnerc 5y ago
> It's outside of our imagination to assume there are different stations No but my naivety thought there would be more automation in place to reduce walking, sorting and picking up heavy things. Granted I have not worked in a fulfilment center and my impressions are solely based on amazon's own material but they put out jobs for operatives that just stand there all day sorting small packets, moving from this to sorting incoming large pallets sounds like it would do more damage! Edit: Thanks for the incorrect wikipedia page, how does compute resources come into play here? I'm not taking anything away from software that solves the nurses roster problem or applies simulated annealing, just merely quoting the source.
- krapp 5y ago
  >but they put out jobs for operatives that just stand there all day sorting small packets, moving from this to sorting incoming large pallets sounds like it would do more damage Amazon's expectation is that every associate will be physically capable of doing any job necessary in the FC at a moments' notice, as business needs demand. I've seen complaints by associates that being sent to new roles like picking or palettes is painful, but unless they have an actual injury and medical waiver, Amazon doesn't make exceptions. I've stowed, picked, counted, run totes, wrapped boxes, stacked palettes, done many things in an Amazon warehouse, I know how they operate. Unless you're bleeding on the ground, you're expected to suck it up and deal. You have to remember, the purpose of automation isn't to decrease stresses on employees, it's to increase their productivity and the value that can be extracted from them per hour. When it's still cheaper and cost efficient to have a meat-robot do the work, they'll do that work.
- stevegalla 5y ago
  > No but my naivety thought there would be more automation in place to reduce walking, sorting and picking up heavy things. Having worked in a non-Amazon fulfillment center, I’m amazed at the automation they do have. Picking and packing product once it’s in a warehouse isn’t the difficult part. Unloading and loading the shipping containers, in my experience, is far more difficult. To maximize space in shipping containers they can be packed floor to ceiling. I think about 22kg was the maximum weight of product I was unloading. Picture beverages stacked floor to ceiling in a 50 foot trailer. The optimal lifting position will happen for a small percentage of the boxes moved. You’re on your toes trying to pull product from above your head, then you’ll be bending over to pick product off the ground. Palletizing the product for transportation within the warehouse also puts you in disadvantaged positions. There will be some token training on how to lift correctly, but you will quickly be falling behind on productivity. To achieve your targets there will be times when you’ll be lifting two boxes together. Or stacking them to be more efficient. If you’re lucky and they see you working hard, they may give you a rest day by putting you on light duty once every two weeks. If you piss off the scheduler, enjoy your heavy rotations. It’s probably a good thing to reduce the human element assigning this kind of work. Also don’t forget not all product (e.g., heavy exercise equipment) arrives with intact packaging. Sometimes you’ll have to move this out by hand when a box falls apart and then repackage the material. When you’re picking product there is often powered pallet jacks to get from point a to point b, but you end up taking short cuts and jumping off before the machine has reached a complete stop. This work is still better than doing rebar or construction. At least you get a roof overhead and stay out of the elements. People who are young and need a job will do dumb things to stay employed.

gowld 5y ago

It's obvious nonsense to kick the can down the road and deflect criticism by saying "we have a new system, it will take years to prove that it's still physically harmful".

bildung 5y ago

This also has the [side?]effect of preventing unionization: If you you have a different workplace every x weeks, it's hard to build meaningful relationships with your coworkers, which often are the basis of organizing for better working conditions. Other companies already implementented this more overtly for this reason, e.g. DHL (at least) in Germany.