4 ms·

While a limitation, I don't really think this affects the platform much. It's not an air superiority fighter like the F-22, it's much more of an air "quarterba

by zozin 6y ago

While a limitation, I don't really think this affects the platform much. It's not an air superiority fighter like the F-22, it's much more of an air "quarterback" to to speak. It flies up, sees the defense, sees the offense, tells the offense where to go and what to do, and in case of emergencies can defend itself if need be. Supersonic flight also requires a lot more fuel and the internal fuel tanks on the F-35 also severely limit the amount of time the plane can sustain supersonic speeds. Obviously you want to have your cake and eat it too, you want a stealthy, extremely high speed, capable, and affordable platform, but that's not how the real world works. I imagine the operators would rather have F-35s in the air for longer periods of time to act as a force multiplier rather than have the jet be able to zoom around 10% faster for 30-40 seconds at a time.

bradleyjg 6y ago
> it's much more of an air "quarterback" to to speak I thought that was AWACS? Why is an F designated plane not in a fighter role?
- piva00 6y ago
  If we are going to stretch the analogy, AWACS could be the watcher on the stands, telling the coach the big picture plays. The quarterback is in the heat, calling tactics in the spur of moment. Not sure if the analogy breaks down completely from here on.
- zozin 6y ago
  AWACS do do that, however, in a conflict with a peer enemy AWACS would get shot down immediately since they're non-stealth sitting ducks.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
  The F-35 is definitely a multi role fighter. It just also has sophisticated enough electronics it can act as a sort of "mini AWACS" when useful. And it's a lot more likely to survive in a peer fight, while AWACS will be pushed back beyond standoff range.
  - bradleyjg 6y ago
    > multi role fighter From an outsiders perspective this has the feel of “it can be whatever you want it to be as long as you keep buying them”.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
      That's not an accurate view. Even within the US the competition between Boeing and LM is pretty intense. Our allies are not somehow being strong armed into buying the F-35. The allies not buying it are generally doing so because they like to use their spending to build domestic industry, like France, or because they simply don't have the budget for anything beyond a previous generation fighter.
rich_sasha 6y ago
Additionally, I believe supersonic flight in general leads to a decrease in stealth, even with supercruise. The structure itself heats up and becomes easier to detect in IR. I think it is understood that carrier aircraft are intrinsically more limited in capabilities than land-based aircraft, it might just not be such a huge issue.
jjk166 6y ago
The F-35 isn't meant to be an observation platform, for which long endurance drones are a much better option, it's a strike fighter. It's supposed to be able to use its stealth to fly through defenses other planes couldn't and deal crippling blows behind those lines. However stealth isn't invisibility, those defensive radars may not be able to lock onto the F-35, but they can see that it's there and scramble fighters to intercept. A big advantage of the F-35's stealth and advanced electronic suite is that it can see enemies before they can see it, and can avoid engagements where it is at a disadvantage - but this relies on it having the speed to get out of dodge before the enemy can close the gap. With limits on speed, it takes longer to complete strike missions which increases the risk of intercept, and the ability to avoid those intercepts is potentially compromised.

by zozin 6y ago

bradleyjg 6y ago

> it's much more of an air "quarterback" to to speak I thought that was AWACS? Why is an F designated plane not in a fighter role?

piva00 6y ago
If we are going to stretch the analogy, AWACS could be the watcher on the stands, telling the coach the big picture plays. The quarterback is in the heat, calling tactics in the spur of moment. Not sure if the analogy breaks down completely from here on.
zozin 6y ago
AWACS do do that, however, in a conflict with a peer enemy AWACS would get shot down immediately since they're non-stealth sitting ducks.
jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
The F-35 is definitely a multi role fighter. It just also has sophisticated enough electronics it can act as a sort of "mini AWACS" when useful. And it's a lot more likely to survive in a peer fight, while AWACS will be pushed back beyond standoff range.
- bradleyjg 6y ago
  > multi role fighter From an outsiders perspective this has the feel of “it can be whatever you want it to be as long as you keep buying them”.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
    That's not an accurate view. Even within the US the competition between Boeing and LM is pretty intense. Our allies are not somehow being strong armed into buying the F-35. The allies not buying it are generally doing so because they like to use their spending to build domestic industry, like France, or because they simply don't have the budget for anything beyond a previous generation fighter.

rich_sasha 6y ago

Additionally, I believe supersonic flight in general leads to a decrease in stealth, even with supercruise. The structure itself heats up and becomes easier to detect in IR. I think it is understood that carrier aircraft are intrinsically more limited in capabilities than land-based aircraft, it might just not be such a huge issue.

jjk166 6y ago

The F-35 isn't meant to be an observation platform, for which long endurance drones are a much better option, it's a strike fighter. It's supposed to be able to use its stealth to fly through defenses other planes couldn't and deal crippling blows behind those lines. However stealth isn't invisibility, those defensive radars may not be able to lock onto the F-35, but they can see that it's there and scramble fighters to intercept. A big advantage of the F-35's stealth and advanced electronic suite is that it can see enemies before they can see it, and can avoid engagements where it is at a disadvantage - but this relies on it having the speed to get out of dodge before the enemy can close the gap. With limits on speed, it takes longer to complete strike missions which increases the risk of intercept, and the ability to avoid those intercepts is potentially compromised.