6 ms·

I was not able to speak to my father, let alone staying in the same room were he was, for about 26 years (~18yr old till recently ~44yr). The background for th

by tzury 6y ago

I was not able to speak to my father, let alone staying in the same room were he was, for about 26 years (~18yr old till recently ~44yr). The background for this was my choice of leaving an ultra orthodox jewish community and going on my own. I recently tried that (after 3 years of hesitation) and the magic happened. It affected my structure of feelings in several ways indeed, but in the context of this one, I would say that, at least for me, it was not like "I forgive you", "you owe me, but I let go". Not at all, in my case, it simply earased the "load", the hard feelings, completely. Beyond the magic psychadelic affects, the trip is an emotional journey that one takes, a journey that you come back with compassion, understanding and rock solid outlook over the world.

simmerup 6y ago
What's your take on allowing a substance to change you so much?
- tzury 6y ago
  not sure I understood the question, mind elaborating ?
- flycaliguy 6y ago
  Can’t speak for OP but it sounds preferable to when he “allowed” his relationship with his father to take him on such an emotional journey.
  - tzury 6y ago
    I was not setting goals before, nor did I know what to expect. This was just an unexpected outcome, one amongst few others. One cannot speak indeed until one tries.
- 987yghj 6y ago
  It doesn't change you. It increases your access to your subconscious. From there, you can draw your own conclusions.
- jeremyjh 6y ago
  The substance turns your thought process inward. You think about the thoughts you are having, and the associations behind those thoughts much more deeply than you otherwise would. You think about ordinary, everyday things in a much deeper way. This is what changes you. You could do the same thing with meditation probably.
  - randomopining 6y ago
    Shrooms hit at a raw emotional level, especially highlighting your connection and oneness with nature. Meditation is the ultimate key though, putting in the hard work and then using shrooms sparingly to cash in on that.
- chpatrick 6y ago
  To me, I don't think it's so much about "change" as having your normal day to day experience being clouded by so much emotional pain, conditioning, trauma, rationalization, etc. If you can take a step back from all that, you can understand your deeper feelings.
- whalesalad 6y ago
  You’re changing yourself. The substance is allowing the transformation to occur.
- scruple 6y ago
  I had a very bad trip, my last trip, and it took me years to recover. That was > 2 decades ago. It's my opinion that we need to recognize that these substances have the power to modify us in extremely powerful, unknown ways. And we need to create a safe environment (how? I do not know, probably regulation, but after seeing how California is handling "legal weed," I am not holding my breath) for people to use these substances in a safe way. > What's your take on allowing a substance to change you so much? In the end, it was still positive. But I wouldn't recommend the path that I walked with psychedelics to anyone, regardless of where it brought me. If I had been better educated, more informed, purchasing from a reputable source, etc... I imagine that things would've been vastly different for me than they were.
  - randomopining 6y ago
    Did you prepare and also surrender to the experience? I think if you give in and accept, you can’t lose.
    - scruple 6y ago
      I wasn't as prepared as I should've been, no, but I did surrender to it. That didn't, however, make it any less terrifying or traumatic (or less embarrassing and humiliating in the time after).
BelmundoRegal 6y ago
See also ; MDMA Solo ; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25974701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25974701 “The brain is not a blind, reactive machine, but a complex, sensitive biocomputer that we can program. And if we don't take the responsibility for programming it, then it will be programmed unwittingly by accident or by the social environment.”
- randomopining 6y ago
  Is it worth it solo?
  - BelmundoRegal 6y ago
    > Meditation is the ultimate key though, putting in the hard work and then using shrooms sparingly to cash in on that. First, that ^ is gold. Second, I've only had a few experiences with it (MDMA), but as far as I'm concerned, it's a waste doing it with other people versus by yourself. It's cool with people too, but off by an order of magnitude from what you can cash out solo, especially if you're someone who makes that ^ kind of comment. To be clear, I haven't actually done any since I found this document here a few months ago. But I have some shit that needs to be dealt with at the kernel level and I'm going to handle that sooner rather than later. Speaking to your other comment ^ I think one could also come to meditation from that gate. Someone not into any of this could realize over night that there are all these other layers of reality that are accessible to them and pursue the path inward afterwards. Or realize they are dealing with extra and unnecessary layers of reality, depending on their specific case and how you want to look at it.
LegitShady 6y ago
I think people should be generally afraid of any substance that can I give long term personality changes with just a few doses, sometimes even with a doctor's help.
- peterlk 6y ago
  I see this argument a lot, and I think it is more hollow than it appears. I am certainly not the same person now that I was 10 years ago. Indeed, I am different than the person I was 1 year ago. Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I watched a movie once that made me deeply depressed for weeks. Thin may have permanently changed my personality too. Should we ban movies because they make people feel and think things that they haven't felt and thought before? (That's as close as I'll get to cancel culture uproar in this post)
  - LegitShady 6y ago
    >Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I think your rebuttal is more hollow than it appears. It ultimately ascribes equal value to all change, and all change no matter how poorly controlled.
- BelmundoRegal 6y ago
  I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. I encourage you to take a moment to get acquainted with what is being done clinically ( which to be honest is not what I was referring to ) ; Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y Matthew W. Johnson is a professor and psychedelics researcher at Johns Hopkins. I could accept your statement with "afraid" switched for "prudent" but even then, it turns out Psilocybin is your friend.
yeswecatan 6y ago
This sounds so amazing. I'd probably never try mushrooms though because I'm terrified of them rewiring my brain in some messed up way.
- quchen 6y ago
  In my experience, »mushrooms rewire you« does not really do them justice: they mostly help you rewire yourself; more like changing habits (internal) rather than surgery (external). Here’s a personal example: a couple of years ago I had a very rough breakup, but over the years came to terms with it. More than 3 years later, I internally »met« my ex in a psychedelic dream-like state, both were happy with our new lives, and we said goodbye to each other. It was calm and peaceful. It was also the first positive thought I’ve had about her, undiluted by lingering negativity. I was not rewired, but it allowed me to think a thought I did not think I could ever have, and changed my outlook on the whole situation. (It was a dose on the low-medium end, and I haven’t attempted repeating it, nor do I plan to.)
  - yeswecatan 6y ago
    Thank you for sharing. If you had a positive experience, why do you plan on not trying again? Of course I'm not advocating for doing it daily :)
    - quchen 6y ago
      I'm open to doing it again, but I have no particular urge to do so. I'm torn between taking it for fun (but unhappy about the lack of depth) or for reflection (which is hard to plan for and exhausting). In the end it's a very intense experience that's a bit hard to anticipate: I need to be outside with good weather, in a good short- and medium-term mood.

by tzury 6y ago

simmerup 6y ago

What's your take on allowing a substance to change you so much?

tzury 6y ago
not sure I understood the question, mind elaborating ?
flycaliguy 6y ago
Can’t speak for OP but it sounds preferable to when he “allowed” his relationship with his father to take him on such an emotional journey.
- tzury 6y ago
  I was not setting goals before, nor did I know what to expect. This was just an unexpected outcome, one amongst few others. One cannot speak indeed until one tries.
987yghj 6y ago
It doesn't change you. It increases your access to your subconscious. From there, you can draw your own conclusions.
jeremyjh 6y ago
The substance turns your thought process inward. You think about the thoughts you are having, and the associations behind those thoughts much more deeply than you otherwise would. You think about ordinary, everyday things in a much deeper way. This is what changes you. You could do the same thing with meditation probably.
- randomopining 6y ago
  Shrooms hit at a raw emotional level, especially highlighting your connection and oneness with nature. Meditation is the ultimate key though, putting in the hard work and then using shrooms sparingly to cash in on that.
chpatrick 6y ago
To me, I don't think it's so much about "change" as having your normal day to day experience being clouded by so much emotional pain, conditioning, trauma, rationalization, etc. If you can take a step back from all that, you can understand your deeper feelings.
whalesalad 6y ago
You’re changing yourself. The substance is allowing the transformation to occur.
scruple 6y ago
I had a very bad trip, my last trip, and it took me years to recover. That was > 2 decades ago. It's my opinion that we need to recognize that these substances have the power to modify us in extremely powerful, unknown ways. And we need to create a safe environment (how? I do not know, probably regulation, but after seeing how California is handling "legal weed," I am not holding my breath) for people to use these substances in a safe way. > What's your take on allowing a substance to change you so much? In the end, it was still positive. But I wouldn't recommend the path that I walked with psychedelics to anyone, regardless of where it brought me. If I had been better educated, more informed, purchasing from a reputable source, etc... I imagine that things would've been vastly different for me than they were.
- randomopining 6y ago
  Did you prepare and also surrender to the experience? I think if you give in and accept, you can’t lose.
  - scruple 6y ago
    I wasn't as prepared as I should've been, no, but I did surrender to it. That didn't, however, make it any less terrifying or traumatic (or less embarrassing and humiliating in the time after).

BelmundoRegal 6y ago

See also ; MDMA Solo ; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25974701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25974701 “The brain is not a blind, reactive machine, but a complex, sensitive biocomputer that we can program. And if we don't take the responsibility for programming it, then it will be programmed unwittingly by accident or by the social environment.”

randomopining 6y ago
Is it worth it solo?
- BelmundoRegal 6y ago
  > Meditation is the ultimate key though, putting in the hard work and then using shrooms sparingly to cash in on that. First, that ^ is gold. Second, I've only had a few experiences with it (MDMA), but as far as I'm concerned, it's a waste doing it with other people versus by yourself. It's cool with people too, but off by an order of magnitude from what you can cash out solo, especially if you're someone who makes that ^ kind of comment. To be clear, I haven't actually done any since I found this document here a few months ago. But I have some shit that needs to be dealt with at the kernel level and I'm going to handle that sooner rather than later. Speaking to your other comment ^ I think one could also come to meditation from that gate. Someone not into any of this could realize over night that there are all these other layers of reality that are accessible to them and pursue the path inward afterwards. Or realize they are dealing with extra and unnecessary layers of reality, depending on their specific case and how you want to look at it.

LegitShady 6y ago

I think people should be generally afraid of any substance that can I give long term personality changes with just a few doses, sometimes even with a doctor's help.

peterlk 6y ago
I see this argument a lot, and I think it is more hollow than it appears. I am certainly not the same person now that I was 10 years ago. Indeed, I am different than the person I was 1 year ago. Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I watched a movie once that made me deeply depressed for weeks. Thin may have permanently changed my personality too. Should we ban movies because they make people feel and think things that they haven't felt and thought before? (That's as close as I'll get to cancel culture uproar in this post)
- LegitShady 6y ago
  >Life happens, people change. Directing this change with psilocybin seems like a reasonable choice. Sometimes it may misfire, and you will be a bit worse off; but sometimes humans get depressed, angry, or otherwise negative for lots of other reasons. I think your rebuttal is more hollow than it appears. It ultimately ascribes equal value to all change, and all change no matter how poorly controlled.
BelmundoRegal 6y ago
I calculate a 99.99% chance you have never tried any such substance and therefore know not what you're talking about. The "long term personality changes" are for the vast majority transformational in a positive way, as in doing away with pathological stuff forever. I encourage you to take a moment to get acquainted with what is being done clinically ( which to be honest is not what I was referring to ) ; Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast #145 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICj8p5jPd3Y Matthew W. Johnson is a professor and psychedelics researcher at Johns Hopkins. I could accept your statement with "afraid" switched for "prudent" but even then, it turns out Psilocybin is your friend.

yeswecatan 6y ago

This sounds so amazing. I'd probably never try mushrooms though because I'm terrified of them rewiring my brain in some messed up way.

quchen 6y ago
In my experience, »mushrooms rewire you« does not really do them justice: they mostly help you rewire yourself; more like changing habits (internal) rather than surgery (external). Here’s a personal example: a couple of years ago I had a very rough breakup, but over the years came to terms with it. More than 3 years later, I internally »met« my ex in a psychedelic dream-like state, both were happy with our new lives, and we said goodbye to each other. It was calm and peaceful. It was also the first positive thought I’ve had about her, undiluted by lingering negativity. I was not rewired, but it allowed me to think a thought I did not think I could ever have, and changed my outlook on the whole situation. (It was a dose on the low-medium end, and I haven’t attempted repeating it, nor do I plan to.)
- yeswecatan 6y ago
  Thank you for sharing. If you had a positive experience, why do you plan on not trying again? Of course I'm not advocating for doing it daily :)
  - quchen 6y ago
    I'm open to doing it again, but I have no particular urge to do so. I'm torn between taking it for fun (but unhappy about the lack of depth) or for reflection (which is hard to plan for and exhausting). In the end it's a very intense experience that's a bit hard to anticipate: I need to be outside with good weather, in a good short- and medium-term mood.