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Why does France need six nuclear powered submarines?

nullserver 5y ago
Ask people from Ukraine.
ceejayoz 5y ago
No land-based ICBMs, and nuclear armed aircraft aren't a great deterrent these days, especially with the distance France's would have to go to reach a likely adversary. You need a bunch because half of them will be docked (repairs, replenishment, R&R, etc.) at any particular time, and having just one at sea risks an adversary taking it out in a first strike.
- icegreentea2 5y ago
  The Saphir and Perle are attack submarines - they aren't France's nuclear missile subs (that's the Triomphant class, and they have 4 of them for exactly the reason you described). France "needs" all this equipment because France (or least enough of its governments) have decided that it's important for France to have an independent capability to influence the world beyond "soft power". It's easy to understand why they might want an independent SLBM force. And if you're going to be building nuclear submarines, may as well make nuclear attack subs so you can try to keep the knowledge and industry base more continuously active.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- angry_octet 5y ago
  As icegreentea2 says, these are attack submarines, not part of the French strategic deterrent. In a surface attack role a nuclear sub has a significant speed and endurance advantage. Conventional subs are can't adjust to course changes in targets very easily; of course, they are quieter and smaller, so choke point ambush becomes more feasible. A nuclear boat also has the speed to keep up with a carrier battle group or a fast convoy. The ability to use SLCM to strike land (MdCN) or maritime targets (Exocet) without obvious forewarning is also useful. Strategic boats are not used for conventional attack because it would reveal their location, and the launch of a ballistic missile could trigger real escalation towards nuclear exchange.
Glawen 5y ago
they are silent, and my guess is that it maintains expertise in designing military nuclear reactors which France need in their SNLA (submarines launching atomic bombs).
rsynnott 5y ago
They need nuclear subs for their nuclear deterrent anyway, so presumably may as well make the attack subs nuclear as well.
openasocket 5y ago
The best answer is an explanation in their own words, the French whitepaper on defense and national security: https://media.nti.org/pdfs/15-Fr.pdf https://media.nti.org/pdfs/15-Fr.pdf . "Nuclear attack submarines carrying cruise missiles are a priority. Due to their stealth and virtually unlimited range, they represent versatile strategic systems that can be used for intelligence, protection of the nuclear submarines [here they are referring to their ballistic missile submarines], escort of the aircraft carrier or special operations. The White Paper sets a target of six submarines." In addition, they can be used on their own to launch strikes against high value targets (things like the chemical weapons facilities in Syria). They are also very useful in the Indo-Pacific to deter China (France still has territorial possessions in southeast Asia): https://warontherocks.com/2021/04/how-franco-australian-cooperation-can-help-stabilize-the-indo-pacific/ https://warontherocks.com/2021/04/how-franco-australian-coop... .

Ask people from Ukraine.

No land-based ICBMs, and nuclear armed aircraft aren't a great deterrent these days, especially with the distance France's would have to go to reach a likely adversary. You need a bunch because half of them will be docked (repairs, replenishment, R&R, etc.) at any particular time, and having just one at sea risks an adversary taking it out in a first strike.

icegreentea2 5y ago
The Saphir and Perle are attack submarines - they aren't France's nuclear missile subs (that's the Triomphant class, and they have 4 of them for exactly the reason you described). France "needs" all this equipment because France (or least enough of its governments) have decided that it's important for France to have an independent capability to influence the world beyond "soft power". It's easy to understand why they might want an independent SLBM force. And if you're going to be building nuclear submarines, may as well make nuclear attack subs so you can try to keep the knowledge and industry base more continuously active.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
angry_octet 5y ago
As icegreentea2 says, these are attack submarines, not part of the French strategic deterrent. In a surface attack role a nuclear sub has a significant speed and endurance advantage. Conventional subs are can't adjust to course changes in targets very easily; of course, they are quieter and smaller, so choke point ambush becomes more feasible. A nuclear boat also has the speed to keep up with a carrier battle group or a fast convoy. The ability to use SLCM to strike land (MdCN) or maritime targets (Exocet) without obvious forewarning is also useful. Strategic boats are not used for conventional attack because it would reveal their location, and the launch of a ballistic missile could trigger real escalation towards nuclear exchange.

Glawen 5y ago

they are silent, and my guess is that it maintains expertise in designing military nuclear reactors which France need in their SNLA (submarines launching atomic bombs).

rsynnott 5y ago

They need nuclear subs for their nuclear deterrent anyway, so presumably may as well make the attack subs nuclear as well.

openasocket 5y ago

The best answer is an explanation in their own words, the French whitepaper on defense and national security: https://media.nti.org/pdfs/15-Fr.pdf https://media.nti.org/pdfs/15-Fr.pdf . "Nuclear attack submarines carrying cruise missiles are a priority. Due to their stealth and virtually unlimited range, they represent versatile strategic systems that can be used for intelligence, protection of the nuclear submarines [here they are referring to their ballistic missile submarines], escort of the aircraft carrier or special operations. The White Paper sets a target of six submarines." In addition, they can be used on their own to launch strikes against high value targets (things like the chemical weapons facilities in Syria). They are also very useful in the Indo-Pacific to deter China (France still has territorial possessions in southeast Asia): https://warontherocks.com/2021/04/how-franco-australian-cooperation-can-help-stabilize-the-indo-pacific/ https://warontherocks.com/2021/04/how-franco-australian-coop... .