6 ms·

Would it really be that costly for Sony to keep whatever NTP-esque server they have running? Sure, shut down the storefront, but an endpoint to check the time m

Would it really be that costly for Sony to keep whatever NTP-esque server they have running? Sure, shut down the storefront, but an endpoint to check the time must cost peanuts for them to run....

bombcar 6y ago
The problem is it’s a tiny bit of maintenance that has to be justified for an unsupported system. The better way is to factor out the time check/set and make it independent and identical across all systems - they they can close the older store but the newer one continues to reply correctly. (Though it’s likely signed by certificates and will die when the PS3 root certs no longer get updates).
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  The flip side to discontinuing the old systems is regulatory scrutiny as they would essentially be stealing their customers purchases.
criddell 6y ago
Or push a firmware update that removes that check.
- TheCraiggers 6y ago
  The cost of doing that would likely be orders of magnitude more than just keeping an NTP server operating for a couple of decades.
  - wyldfire 6y ago
    No QA required: worst case is a different colored brick.
  - criddell 6y ago
    Does the PS3 work with IPv6? If so, you are probably right.
  - grishka 6y ago
    You mean commenting out a line of code, bumping the version and building a firmware image would cost a lot?
  - katbyte 6y ago
    They should have thought about that and planned for it when designing the software
- BiteCode_dev 6y ago
  Then you need to keep the update server alive for a long time.
  - criddell 6y ago
    Or make the update available for download to install via usb drive.
    - dylan604 6y ago
      Is that something that can be done now, or would that too require a firmware update to introduce that feature?
      - criddell 6y ago
        You can do it now: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/ps3/system-software/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/ps3/syste...
- rwmj 6y ago
  But what about people who play time-limited PS3 games after their authorized expiration date! Won't someone think of the software companies?
  - criddell 6y ago
    I wonder how far out the expiration dates are? Surely they must all expire within a year or two? Can you get a time-limited game and say you want it for 50 years? If Sony can't hold up their end of the deal with software license holders, then they need to work out a deal with the software company. It shouldn't involve end users at all.
- whoopdedo 6y ago
  It could be argued that this would be mandated by a right-to-repair law.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
This was my question too. I’ve never done it myself, but I’ve heard anecdotally that the Mac OS 9 ntp servers are still running...
falcolas 6y ago
It’s not the clock that’s the problem, it’s the license checks. I’m guessing here, but I imagine they’re tied to a time for validity, and the clock discrepancy triggers a remote verification.
deergomoo 6y ago
> Sure, shut down the storefront To be honest, I still don't understand why they needed to shut the storefront. They still need to host the games so people can access the titles they've paid for, and I would imagine that makes up the bulk of the cost. The only reason that makes sense to me is that they have plans to shut the entire thing down, including access to purchased games, x years down the line. It's probably much easier to get away with that if even the newest purchase being removed is however many years old. Not that that stopped Nintendo, they took everything down for the original Wii, purchases and all.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  Thank God the internet never forgets. Wii games are awesome for small get togethers or rainy weekends. I'd pay a few hundred for a remade wii that has every wii game on it. Last I checked the vast majority of wii games clocks in under a tb, iirc. If I'm right storage wouldn't even be an issue as a 1tb sad is under $100, and the tech specs are equally light. The remaining problem is rights holders strangling the market to sell today's fidget spinner games.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    “I’d pay ~$300 minus the cost of hardware in exchange for thousands of games, including timeless masterpieces like Metroid Prime and Mario Galaxy, many of which sold for $50 individually less than a decade ago and cost millions of dollars to develop.” Don’t get me wrong, I’d buy that too. But if it happened, I’d be more than a little scared about the viability of game development moving forward, particularly for the artfully-crafted single player experiences I enjoy and care about. More scared than I already am. Nintendo would much rather port Mario Galaxy to their new hardware and sell it as part of a much smaller bundle. And as far as I’m concerned, that game is great and they have every right to continue charging top-dollar for it.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- 6y ago

Would it really be that costly for Sony to keep whatever NTP-esque server they have running? Sure, shut down the storefront, but an endpoint to check the time must cost peanuts for them to run....

bombcar 6y ago

The problem is it’s a tiny bit of maintenance that has to be justified for an unsupported system. The better way is to factor out the time check/set and make it independent and identical across all systems - they they can close the older store but the newer one continues to reply correctly. (Though it’s likely signed by certificates and will die when the PS3 root certs no longer get updates).

tinus_hn 6y ago
The flip side to discontinuing the old systems is regulatory scrutiny as they would essentially be stealing their customers purchases.

criddell 6y ago

Or push a firmware update that removes that check.

TheCraiggers 6y ago
The cost of doing that would likely be orders of magnitude more than just keeping an NTP server operating for a couple of decades.
- wyldfire 6y ago
  No QA required: worst case is a different colored brick.
- criddell 6y ago
  Does the PS3 work with IPv6? If so, you are probably right.
- grishka 6y ago
  You mean commenting out a line of code, bumping the version and building a firmware image would cost a lot?
- katbyte 6y ago
  They should have thought about that and planned for it when designing the software
BiteCode_dev 6y ago
Then you need to keep the update server alive for a long time.
- criddell 6y ago
  Or make the update available for download to install via usb drive.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Is that something that can be done now, or would that too require a firmware update to introduce that feature?
    - criddell 6y ago
      You can do it now: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/ps3/system-software/ https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/hardware/ps3/syste...
rwmj 6y ago
But what about people who play time-limited PS3 games after their authorized expiration date! Won't someone think of the software companies?
- criddell 6y ago
  I wonder how far out the expiration dates are? Surely they must all expire within a year or two? Can you get a time-limited game and say you want it for 50 years? If Sony can't hold up their end of the deal with software license holders, then they need to work out a deal with the software company. It shouldn't involve end users at all.
whoopdedo 6y ago
It could be argued that this would be mandated by a right-to-repair law.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

This was my question too. I’ve never done it myself, but I’ve heard anecdotally that the Mac OS 9 ntp servers are still running...

falcolas 6y ago

It’s not the clock that’s the problem, it’s the license checks. I’m guessing here, but I imagine they’re tied to a time for validity, and the clock discrepancy triggers a remote verification.

deergomoo 6y ago

> Sure, shut down the storefront To be honest, I still don't understand why they needed to shut the storefront. They still need to host the games so people can access the titles they've paid for, and I would imagine that makes up the bulk of the cost. The only reason that makes sense to me is that they have plans to shut the entire thing down, including access to purchased games, x years down the line. It's probably much easier to get away with that if even the newest purchase being removed is however many years old. Not that that stopped Nintendo, they took everything down for the original Wii, purchases and all.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
Thank God the internet never forgets. Wii games are awesome for small get togethers or rainy weekends. I'd pay a few hundred for a remade wii that has every wii game on it. Last I checked the vast majority of wii games clocks in under a tb, iirc. If I'm right storage wouldn't even be an issue as a 1tb sad is under $100, and the tech specs are equally light. The remaining problem is rights holders strangling the market to sell today's fidget spinner games.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  “I’d pay ~$300 minus the cost of hardware in exchange for thousands of games, including timeless masterpieces like Metroid Prime and Mario Galaxy, many of which sold for $50 individually less than a decade ago and cost millions of dollars to develop.” Don’t get me wrong, I’d buy that too. But if it happened, I’d be more than a little scared about the viability of game development moving forward, particularly for the artfully-crafted single player experiences I enjoy and care about. More scared than I already am. Nintendo would much rather port Mario Galaxy to their new hardware and sell it as part of a much smaller bundle. And as far as I’m concerned, that game is great and they have every right to continue charging top-dollar for it.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
6y ago