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Missing hiker found after man using computer at home pinpoints his location
- dbt00 6y agoHigh stakes geoguessr. Happy to have one of these stories with a happy ending.
- hesk 6y agoAt first I thought the headline referred to Bill Ewasko who has been missing in Joshua Park since 2010 [1]. I came across that story after somebody on HN posted about the Death Valley Germans [2]. A couple of hours well-spent. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/22/magazine/voyages-joshua-tree-lost-hiker.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/22/magazine/voya... [2] https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hu...
- supernova87a 6y agoI remember reading about that Bill Ewasko case back when it became newsworthy. On reflecting now, and hearing about other stories, I tend to think the guy was abducted / killed by someone in the wilderness, given the weirdness about his cell phone signals, etc. and him never having been found. There's a lot of shady shit that goes on in the desert, even in a place like Joshua Tree. Anyway, aside from that, I am perpetually in awe / fascinated by how we as human beings long to solve a puzzle, no matter how distant or unfamiliar (or insignificant) another person is to us. There are stories about townspeople keeping a stranger's death alive for decades until solving it. It's almost like a mysterious death is as important, if not more important in a collective consciousness, as lots of people dying from something that is well known or not "interesting"...
- oh_sigh 6y agoWhy would that person turn on the phone 3 days later for a brief moment while they're still near the park, and then turn it off forever? It seems more likely that he just fell down an old mine shaft or into a pit of some kind. Maybe his phone couldn't get service but because of some temporary atmospheric condition it was able to ping the tower.
- fred_is_fred 6y agoIt's far easier to die alone and probably injured and never be found in the wilderness than people think, especially in mountainous desert terrain.
- axiosgunnar 6y agoHeartwarming story! On a related note, have there been any attempts on developing AI models that can pinpoint an (approximate?) location, given a photo?
- curiousllama 6y agoI sure hope not jfc
- xnx 6y agoYes: https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/02/24/161885/google-unveils-neural-network-with-superhuman-ability-to-determine-the-location-of-almost/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/02/24/161885/google-un...
- temp0826 6y agoDFWCaaS (Don't F* with Cats [0] as a service) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_F**k_With_Cats:_Hunting_an_Internet_Killer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_F**k_With_Cats:_Huntin...
- curiousllama 6y agoI was hoping to get a summary of how the guy guessed! “Well, by the angle of the sun he had to be in an n-mile radius of his car. In that area, there are only 4 cliffs with sufficient height to be in that photo with wildfire burn areas in between. And the plants had to be of the genus whateverae due to the shape of their spikes, and those _obviosuly_ only grow on the north face of sedimentary rocks... so it had to be X”
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago> "I have a very weird hobby, which is I love taking a look at photos and figuring out where they're taken." Sometimes you have the right person in the right place at the right time. I'm also really interested in learning more about how this person pinpointed the hiker.
- aaron-santos 6y agoIf you want to approximate it, play GeoGuessr with the self-imposed restrictions of no movement, no rotations. Obvs GeoGuessr primarily has road shots, but if you spend enough time at it, you will find it is a skill that can be improved.
- redler 6y agoThere's also a subreddit for this sort of thing — r/whereisthis.
- schoen 6y agoFor non-players, the "self-imposed restrictions" are actively enforced by the UI if you choose to request them. The most restrictive category is "no moving, panning, or zooming", abbreviated "NMPZ", in which you must guess your location from a single still Street View image. If you search for "NMPZ" on YouTube, you'll see that some people have become very very good at this (!).
- flycaliguy 6y agoYou can also sit on the couch while your spouse watches House Hunter’s International and try to find the apartments as they go.
- disabled 6y agoI am glad that this story has a happy ending. But, as this poster stated (see comment tree here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065803 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065803) there is no reason to be going into wilderness in 2020 (or 2021) without a Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). You get them, of course, at a place like REI. As another poster said "They should be considered as basic and as necessary as a life vest, seat belt, or bike helmet. You should not be backpacking on the Appalachian trail without one." See this comment tree: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435 There are also variants of PLBs (which are not as robust) called satellite communicators. The Garmin Inreach series and Zotero devices are quite popular satellite communicators. Even when exercising outside and not in the wilderness, I carry a Garmin Inreach Mini (which works with my Garmin watch) in case of a medical emergency. I have health conditions and it virtually guarantees that emergency services gets my GPS coordinates. Of course, I take other safety precautions to avoid an emergency in the first place.
- ghaff 6y agoI just really have a lot of trouble with that comment. I originally downvoted--but then I didn't--but I just have trouble with the concept that I must always take active measures to have people rescue me just really bothers me. I'd probably consider a PLB if I were soloing in a remote area but I doubt if I would on the AT in general. And certainly don't have (or would consider) in routine local outside areas.
- disabled 6y agoIf hiking on a trail even on the outskirts, EMS can have trouble locating you. I am from the Pacific Northwest, and I am quite hardy. You carry one so that you can be located in an emergency.
- ghaff 6y agoI'm sure it's just a difference in philosophy and, perhaps, age. And, yes, I've done a lot of hiking in the PNW although I don't live there. Just not something I'm interested in generally.
- starpilot 6y agoThe hiker texted a photo. Even better, since he had a smartphone, he could text his GPS coordinates from an app like Gaia. Not sure if there's a way to get lat/long from Apple or Google Maps.
- m3kw9 6y agoA twist to how he came to conclusion: “Coincidentally, Kuo tracks wildfires using satellite images. A hobby that certainly came in handy.”
- c-slice 6y agoSomeone attempted to recreate the method using shadows to verify the image. https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382371967618097157?s=21 https://twitter.com/ai6yrham/status/1382371967618097157?s=21
- dandelany 6y agoActually, I believe that's Ben Kuo, the person named in the article who identified the location originally, recreating his own work.
- jedberg 6y agoI'm super confused why he didn't just send his GPS cords. If he had enough reception to send a text with a photo, he should have been able to get GPS, right? At the very least the tower he was connected to should have given his approximate location, right?
- kaiju0 6y agoEven worse the gps coordinates should have been in the picture meta data
- jedberg 6y agoPossibly. Sometimes that gets stripped out when you try to send it. But yes, in theory it may have been in the photo's metadata too.
- LeonM 6y agoMost messaging apps and other social media platforms strip the metadata for privacy reasons.
- 8128js8121 6y agotrue but not quite. They strip it. Store the original and the meta data in their own database (because data on people is what gives them value) then they serve the stripped down quality one.
- ytpete 6y agoAre you sure it's not stripped out on the client before anything is sent to the server? It would actually be really interesting to see a list of which apps strip metadata early on the client side vs. which retain it on their server and merely strip data from what is shared to other users...
- meowface 6y agoIt'd be hard or impossible to distinguish which ones strip it on the backend and discard the original image and EXIF data vs. ones who retain some of the EXIF data in some way. Just because they don't strip it on the client doesn't necessarily imply they're storing the metadata on the backend. (It just leaves the possibility open.)
- perrohunter 6y agoI thik if you are a hiker you should bring a regular map and a compass just in case this ever happens to you.
- SkittyDog 6y agoWhen you're traveling off trail, it's not enough to simply have a map & compass... You need to learn how to interpret a topographic map, and recognize the terrain around you. That takes time & effort. It's a very useful skill, and worth learning if you're going outdoors. But it's not as simple as looking at road maps and reading street signs. Coincidentally, there is a great Sierra Club program in Los Angeles & Orange County that teaches off-trail navigation (among other skills)... It's called the Wilderness Travel Course, and it's great fun. I believe the Mountaineers in the PNW also teach those skills as part of their leadership program.
- techcode 6y agoIf someone wants to get idea of how hard it can be, without leaving house ... Playing Death Stranding comes close. Obviously game has realtime location/map, with isometric/topographic view also available, which makes it much easier than it would be in real world - reading off a paper map and guestimating where on that map you might be. So basically try to check map and plan the route (e.g. reach a river/canyon/house/junction and then go left) ahead, and then either don't check the map (because it shows exactly where you are), or have a screenshot of it from before you left one of drop locations.
- prawn 6y ago"You need to learn how to interpret a topographic map, and recognize the terrain around you. That takes time & effort." And you can still make mistakes that throw off your navigation. In the past, I participated in a sport that involved navigating through terrain for up to 24 hours (through the night) looking for targets. The compass work was never much of an issue (more a process), but making decisions based on the terrain was - is that the third gully since we left the spur or the fourth? And issues typically compound.
- renewiltord 6y agoI use Google Location Sharing to continuously share my location with a few friends. It's quite nice. Makes planning easier. Also, maybe it'll help with this stuff haha.
- techcode 6y agoDid you notice it started to work worse over last ~2 years? I shared problems in another comment here - TL;DR: worked seemingly good some 3+ years ago, started being flaky before covid, and seems much worse since covid. So even if remote area was covered with cellular network, I would not rely on location sharing to show where I am not even where I was.
- renewiltord 6y agoIt seems to be working just the same as before. Maybe it's interacting poorly with a phone feature of yours like Battery Saver or something? I also think my Pixel 5 is like worse at a few of these things than my Pixel 2 so who knows.
- techcode 6y agoThat stuff might be part. Though in some combinations the phone (and battery saving settings or such) haven't changed. And although on one hand going from being at same place for hours if not days (home during covid), and then in just 10-15min reaching another place without any or with really bad cellular reception could be messing with optimizations of location sharing. I recall few situations where both wife and I were next to each other, both phones running google maps at the moment, each hitting on refreshing/retrying getting the other ones location - and thing still showing us as currently offline.
- renewiltord 6y agoHuh, I haven't seen that happen. That sucks, man.
- techcode 6y agoAt some point personal/family emergency meant that instead of "regular" 1800km of both wife and myself driving across Europe - I was about to drive that on my own, all in one go/day. And then few days later back. To ease her mind - I turned on family/emergency location sharing in Google Maps. Afterward we realized it's supper convinient way to avoid those "How long before you (and one of kids that either one of us would pick up) are home?" calls. Although starting shortly before Covid the functionality seems to have taken a nose dive. Like randomly showing one of us is in different city (e.g. Amsterdam vs Rotterdam), or now during Covid often saying "Offline, along with last known location from 1h ago (which tends to be home) and what was battery level at the time". Actually it seems like some engineer (pre covid) though of optimizing refresh time for Google Maps location sharing based on how much it changes over some recent time. And now combination of WFH meaning it's same place for majority of the day and that TTL being high, and literally all grocery stores we go to having no cellphone signal (I mean not even SMS can make it) putting us in edge of an edge case.
- toast0 6y agoGoogle has been really tightening the strings on background execution. Maybe double check that Maps and Play Services are allowed unlimited data access, and exempted from battery savings (if you have that enabled).
- ArcturianDeath 6y agoSee also, DAVID PAULIDES
- gpas 6y agoI just don't get how smartphones still don't have a well designed way to quickly ask for help in cases like this, or even worse if you are not lost but injured. A big configurable button that when tapped tries to fix gps and send your position to the numbers you choose when the cell signal is strong enough. Going alone in the wild is amazing but can be dangerous even for the expert.
- techcode 6y agoActually I just realized that from lock screen of my phone, tapping on emergency also shows "What's my location". Besides GPS, it sadly also needs/uses internet connection and then shows street address. Oh and last time our car died in some small town with unpronounceable German name - once I called insurance (with roadside assistance module), operator sent me SMS, shortened URL opened up web browser and page asked for permission to get GPS access, and 10 seconds later she had exact Lat/Long on her screen.
- jonah 6y agoHere is a service that lets you request anyone's location like the insurance operator did for you. Super easy and handy when you're trying to find someone who's not able to find their coordinates on their phone themselves. https://yourlo.ca/tion https://yourlo.ca/tion
- bellyfullofbac 6y agoHah, cute URL, but for non-technical users they'll wonder where to put the dot and slash (or even why it needs seemingly random characters there) When del.icio.us was around, after a while I wondered where the first . needed to be. Having the site be yourlocation.com or whatsmylocation.com would be a lot better.
- jonah 6y agoAgreed. It's definitely something you should bookmark or add as an icon on your phone. Another neat app is Backcountry SOS which is nice because it gathers your location and status and doesn't require an internet connection. It generates a text message you can send to 911 or anyone else. https://www.backcountrysos.com/ https://www.backcountrysos.com/ Generally, you may be able to get an SMS out in an area with marginal cellphone coverage even when voice doesn't work. Turn on voice roaming for better results.
- interestica 6y agoOn a related note, I played geoguessr for the first time in a while ... and it's now a partly premium service with a huge community. I'm kinda impressed by the model they figured out. And also related: If you've got the android app MacroDroid (and presumably Tasker and others) you can set up an SMS auto-responder that will send your GPS coords. You can make it respond to a pre-approved contact who sends a pre-approved phrase. It means you're not constantly sending out location data, but can be reached hands-free if needed. And you should be able to sneak in an SMS even when service is unreliable.
- gundmc 6y agoThe most popular streamer on Twitch plays pretty frequently, which I think has done a lot for the Geoguessr community.
- evantm 6y agoUsing google maps and Tasker one can interlace the GPS coordinates into a google maps link, which I found easier for those that might be unfamiliar.
- interestica 6y agoThe MacroDroid SMSs get sent out as: maps.google.com/maps?q=[coordinates] There's probably some value in a lightweight standalone app that does this alone.
- jodrellblank 6y agoLast year I had reason to search for a missing walker from my remote home. I went to all the satellite image sites google could find and got nothing - months out of date pictures, too low resolution to be of use. It was a long shot but close enough to be imaginable that there might be a “put credit card in, get high res photo of area from the last flyover”. Lo and behold a few weeks later just such a service appeared on HN. The person was eventually found by people in the area, and had died on a path in an open field, (sudden collapse and no chance to have used their phone to call anyone) so being out of tree cover etc. might plausibly have been found by a good clear overhead image. Probably still too small for a non-military satellite image, maybe a drone flyover. I do often wonder what it would take for humans to actually save people Thunderbirds style. We’re getting closer and closer to ubiquitous surveillance, but when you look at the nutty putty cave incident or the Thai schoolchildren in the cave, locations were known there was just no way to blast the rock without crushing the people, and rescue or failure came down to human effort. Very little future tech would have made either rescue attempt enormously easier, would it? To get to people trapped under rock quickly you need to move or melt a lot of rock and you can’t blast or drill casually because of the risk to the people. That leaves slow or low-energy rescue which is slow and limited in what it can try. How are today’s emergency services doing compared to a platonic ideal emergency service which can find and save anyone anywhere on earth from any trouble they are in, Superman style? Are we almost as good as it’s possible to be (but not evenly distributed), or nowhere near?
- therockspush 6y agoSaw this yesterday and thought it was a coincidence. Finding someone using intuition and suncalc. https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2020/12/03/using-the-sun-and-the-shadows-for-geolocation/ https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2020/12/03/using-the-su...
- jonah 6y agoFor those interested, here are some readings about location and rescue and cellphones and the emergency dispatch system, etc. etc. Cell Phones and SAR - Browser-based Location Apps https://wisarandgis.blogspot.com/2016/06/cell-phones-and-sar-browser-based.html https://wisarandgis.blogspot.com/2016/06/cell-phones-and-sar... Reasons Why 911 Sometimes Cannot Find Cell Phones https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/reasons_why_911_cannot_find_cell_phones.pdf https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/reasons_why_911_cannot_find_cell... The Smart Way To Use A Cell Phone To Contact 911 https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/smart_way_call_911_with_cell_phone.pdf https://findmesar.com/p/pdf/smart_way_call_911_with_cell_pho...
- MappingSupport 6y ago@jonah, thanks for posting. I'm the guy that wrote those PDFs. The #1 thing that suprised me in doing the research is that the standard 911 system as defined by the FCC does not get the caller's coordinates from their cell phone like Uber does. Now with that said, there are a lot of 911 call centers that use RapidSOS or other add on technology that do get the caller's coordinates directly from the caller's phone. Of course a person calling 911 has no way to know beforehand whether the 911 call center handling their call will be able to get their coordinates via technology. That is the reason I urge everyone to have some way to use their phone to get their coordinates and the equally important accuracy value. Use a compass app, use FindMeSAR (I am developer) or use something else. I don't care. Instead, the important point is that you use 'something instead of nothing'.
- KoftaBob 6y agoMy first thought would be to check the EXIF data for geolocation info. Did he mention whether that was there?