9 ms·

It'd be nice if the US would ditch it's statutes from the late 19th century that make it illegal for foreign-flagged vessels from taking passengers from one US

It'd be nice if the US would ditch it's statutes from the late 19th century that make it illegal for foreign-flagged vessels from taking passengers from one US port to another. This is why, for example, almost all Alaskan cruises sail from Vancouver.

sandworm101 6y ago
Without those rules, what is to stop foreign vessels from replacing domestic passenger ships? The Staten Island ferry might just adopt a foreign flag and staff the ships according to foreign (ie cheap) labor laws.
- netflixandkill 6y ago
  A better law that more precisely addresses the various situations instead of depending on the verbiage chosen by the long dead.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    >> verbiage chosen by the long dead. Look at the average age of the people writing laws. I'd say that 90% or more of current law was created by people now "long dead".
- excalibur 6y ago
  What could be more American than that?
- thrower123 6y ago
  What domestic passenger ships? There's a handful of cruise ships that are US flagged specifically for the Hawaii route. That's it. If you're concerned about car ferries, you can make specific laws about them. Or better yet, New York state could, since that's in their jurisdiction.
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    It's a bit of a few different thigns. There are tons of ferries across the US and getting rid of that rule would require either rewriting the law to maintain the change for them or for every state along the coasts to do their own regulating. Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US.
    - thrower123 6y ago
      > Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US. This is the original purpose of the law, but it has failed completely and utterly. At some point you have to stand back and survey what the actual results of legislation are, as opposed to the intended results, and if those two aren't in any way congruent, scrap things and start over.
      - vkou 6y ago
        It only 'really failed' Puerto Rico. Airlines have similar rules, yet I never see people grousing that you can't take an Air Malay flight from Chicago to LA.
        jjk166 6y ago
        The domestic ship building industry imploded. America is an economic empire built on maritime shipping with only one remaining commercial shipyard capable of producing large vessels, and it is being kept alive with government contracts.
        vkou 6y ago
        That has everything to do with lower cost of labour overseas. Without the requirement for US ships to go from one US port to another, the shipbuilding industry would still be dead, and you'd have a dead shipping industry with it. You would have foreign-flagged crews moving cargo with foreign-built ships, against which you'd have zero recourse, in the event of disaster.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  Where would those foreign workers live? In the ship?
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Yes. That is exactly how such things are done.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      Hmm, I didn't think it was legal for foreign nationals to live (be resident) just offshore like that..
      - sandworm101 6y ago
        Such as all of those manning the cruise ships sailing out of US ports? Every large ship sitting in s US harbor has forgien workers living aboard.
        Chris2048 6y ago
        I would have assumed cruise-ship workers would come on land for long port stays. And that larger cargo vessels wouldn't stay long. How long can you stay in one place before it counts as residency?
        sandworm101 6y ago
        Syrian sailor stranded on abandoned cargo ship off Egyptian coast - BBC News Apr. 6, 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM The Egyptians have told him he cannot leave the ship. He has been stuck as its "master" for over a year. These things happen in the world of international shipping. Human rights tend to disappear.
        Chris2048 6y ago
Ichthypresbyter 6y ago
The problem isn't so much the flag requirements as the other ones- especially the requirement that the ship must be built in the US.

sandworm101 6y ago

Without those rules, what is to stop foreign vessels from replacing domestic passenger ships? The Staten Island ferry might just adopt a foreign flag and staff the ships according to foreign (ie cheap) labor laws.

netflixandkill 6y ago
A better law that more precisely addresses the various situations instead of depending on the verbiage chosen by the long dead.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  >> verbiage chosen by the long dead. Look at the average age of the people writing laws. I'd say that 90% or more of current law was created by people now "long dead".
excalibur 6y ago
What could be more American than that?
thrower123 6y ago
What domestic passenger ships? There's a handful of cruise ships that are US flagged specifically for the Hawaii route. That's it. If you're concerned about car ferries, you can make specific laws about them. Or better yet, New York state could, since that's in their jurisdiction.
- rtkwe 6y ago
  It's a bit of a few different thigns. There are tons of ferries across the US and getting rid of that rule would require either rewriting the law to maintain the change for them or for every state along the coasts to do their own regulating. Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US.
  - thrower123 6y ago
    > Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US. This is the original purpose of the law, but it has failed completely and utterly. At some point you have to stand back and survey what the actual results of legislation are, as opposed to the intended results, and if those two aren't in any way congruent, scrap things and start over.
    - vkou 6y ago
      It only 'really failed' Puerto Rico. Airlines have similar rules, yet I never see people grousing that you can't take an Air Malay flight from Chicago to LA.
      - jjk166 6y ago
        The domestic ship building industry imploded. America is an economic empire built on maritime shipping with only one remaining commercial shipyard capable of producing large vessels, and it is being kept alive with government contracts.
        vkou 6y ago
        That has everything to do with lower cost of labour overseas. Without the requirement for US ships to go from one US port to another, the shipbuilding industry would still be dead, and you'd have a dead shipping industry with it. You would have foreign-flagged crews moving cargo with foreign-built ships, against which you'd have zero recourse, in the event of disaster.
Chris2048 6y ago
Where would those foreign workers live? In the ship?
- sandworm101 6y ago
  Yes. That is exactly how such things are done.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    Hmm, I didn't think it was legal for foreign nationals to live (be resident) just offshore like that..
    - sandworm101 6y ago
      Such as all of those manning the cruise ships sailing out of US ports? Every large ship sitting in s US harbor has forgien workers living aboard.
      - Chris2048 6y ago
        I would have assumed cruise-ship workers would come on land for long port stays. And that larger cargo vessels wouldn't stay long. How long can you stay in one place before it counts as residency?
        sandworm101 6y ago
        Syrian sailor stranded on abandoned cargo ship off Egyptian coast - BBC News Apr. 6, 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM The Egyptians have told him he cannot leave the ship. He has been stuck as its "master" for over a year. These things happen in the world of international shipping. Human rights tend to disappear.
        Chris2048 6y ago

Ichthypresbyter 6y ago

The problem isn't so much the flag requirements as the other ones- especially the requirement that the ship must be built in the US.