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>If you can't be bothered to find a single woman judge, how are you going to rate projects created and designed by women?] That is some pretty non-transitional

>If you can't be bothered to find a single woman judge, how are you going to rate projects created and designed by women?] That is some pretty non-transitional thinking! Why in the world would a man not be able to just a Redis project developed by a woman? [edited because of your edit: I stand by the above statement even in the face of your very weak argument] Let me ask you a question. If that panel had been all women, would you be on here talking about how a woman would not be able to judge a Redis project developed by a man?

teachingassist 6y ago
If you genuinely believe this: that it makes no difference, why would you choose to have an all-men judging panel?
- callamdelaney 6y ago
  Because 19 of the top 20 contributors to redis are men?
- tester34 6y ago
  >why would you choose to have an all-men judging panel? e.g maybe they were the only competent/(interested in taking a part in this project) people avaliable
  - teachingassist 6y ago
    And there we have it - no women are competent - no women are available to judge usability of a product, UX Design, and whether or not a product uses Redis? (The judging criteria are laid out like this) This is at least logically consistent. It meets my point that if you're a women looking at a panel selected on the basis that no women are competent, why would you enter?
    - tuyguntn 6y ago
      I politely want to say shut up, but can't find best words. Because you judge people based on their sex/race, I am pretty sure Redis people didn't even think about sex of judges, they just selected people by their expertise. There might have been other female experts on team, but they weren't considered not because they are female, just because other people had more experience (may be) No one said women are incompetent, this is how you build your own world view, so you think men think women are incompetent.
      - teachingassist 6y ago
        > No one said women are incompetent, The commenter above literally says "maybe [men] were the only competent people avaliable". For clarification, are we reading this differently?
        tester34 6y ago
        but "maybe [men] were the only competent people avaliable" is not equal to "women are incompetent"
      - niklasrde 6y ago
        Not thinking about the sex of the judges does imply ignoring any possible unconscious bias. I am not a fan of discrimination, "positive" or otherwise, but I think acknowledging that unconscious biases exist, and that a panel selection process has tried to account for that, is the minimum I'd expect for something like this.
    - tester34 6y ago
      I meant in the terms of experience e.g let's say you have 10 senior level men because they were in the company since the beginning and then you have let's say 40-60% women-men ratio in new people - juniors and mid levels If I were company, then I'd send the best people avalibale to things like that, also some people just may not want to do things like that
    - new-account 6y ago
      Pretty sexist of you to assume, that certainly there must be woman available for ux testing. Could it not be, that they have smth better to do?
      - teachingassist 6y ago
        I can give you a list of professional women UX experts who would have been delighted to have been asked (before now), and if you can't, then I believe you shouldn't be composing a panel for judging UX - because you don't know or haven't researched the field sufficiently well to even identify any women. The assumption being made in this thread is that the six men are particular experts in the fields being judged: the best available experts. From what I can see, the selected judges don't even work in those fields being judged (i.e. there is no reason to confer them this expertise), so the reasoning that the best available experts must have been chosen doesn't make any sense.
        tester34 6y ago
        So in your opinion they should try to find judges outside their company?
        teachingassist 6y ago
        If you're going to pay for a prize competition in product design, when your company doesn't have product design as a core skill, then maybe it would be a good idea to find independent, expert judges of product design from outside of the company? Sure, that's what I would do. But that part is up to them.
        NicoJuicy 6y ago
        Redis isn't UX. The hackathon isn't about "product design" either. It's a specific technology in a coding environment where 95% seems to be male. I don't know 1 female dba, which is more closely aligned than what Redis does ( I do know multiple in design/UX/Graphics ) Open source even has more males to females than tech in general. You are free to find better data than the Github survey: https://opensourcesurvey.org/2017/#data https://opensourcesurvey.org/2017/#data which clearly states that only 1/20 are female. Additionally: 9 people in Redis org, all male: https://github.com/orgs/redis/people https://github.com/orgs/redis/people Additionally: I can't see a single female Redis contributor: https://github.com/redis/redis/graphs/contributors https://github.com/redis/redis/graphs/contributors They have female employees outside of coding, for sure: https://redislabs.com/company/careers/ https://redislabs.com/company/careers/ Convince me with relevant data that the judge panel is "unfair".
- mhuffman 6y ago
  >If you genuinely believe this: that it makes no difference, why would you choose to have an all-men judging panel? I didn't choose. Perhaps the people that did, didn't have a lot of, or maybe any, women to choose from? Or perhaps, and I know this is going to piss off a lot of people, but perhaps the best judges they could find just happened to be men? In any case, my mind, unlike yours apparently, did not immediately jump to malice or the soft bigotry of them "just not knowing" they fucked up due to innate misogyny.
- tuyguntn 6y ago
  How many men and women work at Redis Labs? Do you know their qualifications? ratio? Expertise matters a lot when it comes to judging some other person's product. I am pretty sure, if you were selected, no matter how good other products will be, you chose female build product. Is this fair?

teachingassist 6y ago

If you genuinely believe this: that it makes no difference, why would you choose to have an all-men judging panel?

callamdelaney 6y ago
Because 19 of the top 20 contributors to redis are men?
tester34 6y ago
>why would you choose to have an all-men judging panel? e.g maybe they were the only competent/(interested in taking a part in this project) people avaliable
- teachingassist 6y ago
  And there we have it - no women are competent - no women are available to judge usability of a product, UX Design, and whether or not a product uses Redis? (The judging criteria are laid out like this) This is at least logically consistent. It meets my point that if you're a women looking at a panel selected on the basis that no women are competent, why would you enter?
  - tuyguntn 6y ago
    I politely want to say shut up, but can't find best words. Because you judge people based on their sex/race, I am pretty sure Redis people didn't even think about sex of judges, they just selected people by their expertise. There might have been other female experts on team, but they weren't considered not because they are female, just because other people had more experience (may be) No one said women are incompetent, this is how you build your own world view, so you think men think women are incompetent.
    - teachingassist 6y ago
      > No one said women are incompetent, The commenter above literally says "maybe [men] were the only competent people avaliable". For clarification, are we reading this differently?
      - tester34 6y ago
        but "maybe [men] were the only competent people avaliable" is not equal to "women are incompetent"
    - niklasrde 6y ago
      Not thinking about the sex of the judges does imply ignoring any possible unconscious bias. I am not a fan of discrimination, "positive" or otherwise, but I think acknowledging that unconscious biases exist, and that a panel selection process has tried to account for that, is the minimum I'd expect for something like this.
  - tester34 6y ago
    I meant in the terms of experience e.g let's say you have 10 senior level men because they were in the company since the beginning and then you have let's say 40-60% women-men ratio in new people - juniors and mid levels If I were company, then I'd send the best people avalibale to things like that, also some people just may not want to do things like that
  - new-account 6y ago
    Pretty sexist of you to assume, that certainly there must be woman available for ux testing. Could it not be, that they have smth better to do?
    - teachingassist 6y ago
      I can give you a list of professional women UX experts who would have been delighted to have been asked (before now), and if you can't, then I believe you shouldn't be composing a panel for judging UX - because you don't know or haven't researched the field sufficiently well to even identify any women. The assumption being made in this thread is that the six men are particular experts in the fields being judged: the best available experts. From what I can see, the selected judges don't even work in those fields being judged (i.e. there is no reason to confer them this expertise), so the reasoning that the best available experts must have been chosen doesn't make any sense.
      - tester34 6y ago
        So in your opinion they should try to find judges outside their company?
        teachingassist 6y ago
        If you're going to pay for a prize competition in product design, when your company doesn't have product design as a core skill, then maybe it would be a good idea to find independent, expert judges of product design from outside of the company? Sure, that's what I would do. But that part is up to them.
      - NicoJuicy 6y ago
        Redis isn't UX. The hackathon isn't about "product design" either. It's a specific technology in a coding environment where 95% seems to be male. I don't know 1 female dba, which is more closely aligned than what Redis does ( I do know multiple in design/UX/Graphics ) Open source even has more males to females than tech in general. You are free to find better data than the Github survey: https://opensourcesurvey.org/2017/#data https://opensourcesurvey.org/2017/#data which clearly states that only 1/20 are female. Additionally: 9 people in Redis org, all male: https://github.com/orgs/redis/people https://github.com/orgs/redis/people Additionally: I can't see a single female Redis contributor: https://github.com/redis/redis/graphs/contributors https://github.com/redis/redis/graphs/contributors They have female employees outside of coding, for sure: https://redislabs.com/company/careers/ https://redislabs.com/company/careers/ Convince me with relevant data that the judge panel is "unfair".
mhuffman 6y ago
>If you genuinely believe this: that it makes no difference, why would you choose to have an all-men judging panel? I didn't choose. Perhaps the people that did, didn't have a lot of, or maybe any, women to choose from? Or perhaps, and I know this is going to piss off a lot of people, but perhaps the best judges they could find just happened to be men? In any case, my mind, unlike yours apparently, did not immediately jump to malice or the soft bigotry of them "just not knowing" they fucked up due to innate misogyny.
tuyguntn 6y ago
How many men and women work at Redis Labs? Do you know their qualifications? ratio? Expertise matters a lot when it comes to judging some other person's product. I am pretty sure, if you were selected, no matter how good other products will be, you chose female build product. Is this fair?