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Also, and maybe most important: In the majority(?) of cases it did not work. Landlords found absurd ways to work around it. Many not necessary fully legal but

Also, and maybe most important: In the majority(?) of cases it did not work. Landlords found absurd ways to work around it. Many not necessary fully legal but only in a way that if no one who is "hurt" by it sues the state can not act. There where enough people which where open to pay the de-facto increased "not so legal" Rent, and as such would definitely not sure. A common trick was to pair the rent contract with Renting some token furniture for completely unreasonable (and as such somewhat illegal/moon-) prices. (note: this wasn't the same as the rent prices for furnished apartments exception thingy mentioned by others) Again if both renter and rentee are happy with it there is nothing which the state could have done. Also more apartments where sold instead of rented out, in turn decreasing the amount of rente-able apartments while the demand did change (maybe except due to COVID, I would have to look it up). Furthermore it's not uncommon that such apartments do not enter the rent pool again even if the person in question leaves Berlin (and then illegally perma rents it over RBnB to tourists, or keeps it empty or resells it or ...) Lastly due to majorly increased renovation costs (as far as I know) and now rent caps it was basically much less likely for any new apartments to be added to the pool. And even (potentially necessary) renovations of existing ones was much less likely done (as far as I have heard from people involved in that business, through not the very big players, but it matches the experience other cities which did impose rent caps had). And just to be clear Rents in Berlin reaching a point where it's problematic for many people from Berlin to pay them IS a massive problem. Just that this law as far as I can tell would not have solved it and maybe even made it worse. Also yes Rents had been unusual low in the past (I'm personally profiting from this) but now they have gone beyond any reasonable price in many cases (at least in context what many people earn in Berlin).

nicbou 6y ago
> A common trick was to pair the rent contract with Renting some token furniture for completely unreasonable That's a problem with the Mietpreisbremse, but not so much with the Mietendeckel, which also sets limits on furnished flats. You also can't just throw in an IKEA BILLY shelf and call it furnished (in the words of my lawyer).
- pizza234 6y ago
  This is correct, however: > Again if both renter and rentee are happy with it there is nothing which the state could have done. Landlords will cheat, and clients will do everything in order to get an apartment. I've seen rental appointments with landlords, with 30/40 prospective clients, and I've always wondered if price is really the problem. I've even done a sort of test, and offered more than requested - and it didn't work. Observing so many people competing for housing, intuitively makes me think that the housing problem is not of economic nature (but I suppose that the situation is complex).
  - dathinab 6y ago
    Exactly that, also they didn't rent out a furnished apartment, they will rent out a apartment and you will rent some overpriced furniture independent of the apartment from a 3rd party. It just "happened" that you sign both at the same time and that the same person (through proxy) profits from both. While this still is illegal, it's to a point where even if the renting person tries to sue it likely would not be a super simple case, i.e. would take time. And then if you agree on it why should you sue? And if you rant and then sue are you not afraid on ending up on secret illegal but unpreventable black list making it harder to find a apartment or gain a incorrect but still very troublesome Schufa (credit scoring) entry? The problem is often phrased as people renting out apartments for moon prices. But that's not the case, they rent them out for prices which are paid in many cases.(Also cost for renovating/building nearly doubled in the last ~10y for smaller property owners.). The actual problem is that the people living in Berlin since a long time (potentially birth) don't earn enough to continue to do so. It's not that there aren't people paying and therefore there are a lot of empty properties (ok in some areas that happens too, in Berlin less so).

nicbou 6y ago

> A common trick was to pair the rent contract with Renting some token furniture for completely unreasonable That's a problem with the Mietpreisbremse, but not so much with the Mietendeckel, which also sets limits on furnished flats. You also can't just throw in an IKEA BILLY shelf and call it furnished (in the words of my lawyer).

pizza234 6y ago
This is correct, however: > Again if both renter and rentee are happy with it there is nothing which the state could have done. Landlords will cheat, and clients will do everything in order to get an apartment. I've seen rental appointments with landlords, with 30/40 prospective clients, and I've always wondered if price is really the problem. I've even done a sort of test, and offered more than requested - and it didn't work. Observing so many people competing for housing, intuitively makes me think that the housing problem is not of economic nature (but I suppose that the situation is complex).
- dathinab 6y ago
  Exactly that, also they didn't rent out a furnished apartment, they will rent out a apartment and you will rent some overpriced furniture independent of the apartment from a 3rd party. It just "happened" that you sign both at the same time and that the same person (through proxy) profits from both. While this still is illegal, it's to a point where even if the renting person tries to sue it likely would not be a super simple case, i.e. would take time. And then if you agree on it why should you sue? And if you rant and then sue are you not afraid on ending up on secret illegal but unpreventable black list making it harder to find a apartment or gain a incorrect but still very troublesome Schufa (credit scoring) entry? The problem is often phrased as people renting out apartments for moon prices. But that's not the case, they rent them out for prices which are paid in many cases.(Also cost for renovating/building nearly doubled in the last ~10y for smaller property owners.). The actual problem is that the people living in Berlin since a long time (potentially birth) don't earn enough to continue to do so. It's not that there aren't people paying and therefore there are a lot of empty properties (ok in some areas that happens too, in Berlin less so).