4 ms·

> With demand soaring, many cruise shipbuilders are booked into the early 2020s... That didn't work out so well for them.

wongarsu 6y ago
Cruise lines seem to have survived just fine and are starting operations back up (for vaccinated passengers). And if you believe that all publicity is good publicity they should have no problems filling those ships
- lifeisstillgood 6y ago
  This is turning out to be an interesting business model - there are obviously the "pay us and we keep your money, but keep offering you future cruises till the pandemic is over" Additionally they are now offering "single country cruises" - start in one country, sail from port to port in same country - which radically simplified the vaccination
  - thrower123 6y ago
    It'd be nice if the US would ditch it's statutes from the late 19th century that make it illegal for foreign-flagged vessels from taking passengers from one US port to another. This is why, for example, almost all Alaskan cruises sail from Vancouver.
    - sandworm101 6y ago
      Without those rules, what is to stop foreign vessels from replacing domestic passenger ships? The Staten Island ferry might just adopt a foreign flag and staff the ships according to foreign (ie cheap) labor laws.
      - netflixandkill 6y ago
        A better law that more precisely addresses the various situations instead of depending on the verbiage chosen by the long dead.
        sandworm101 6y ago
        >> verbiage chosen by the long dead. Look at the average age of the people writing laws. I'd say that 90% or more of current law was created by people now "long dead".
      - excalibur 6y ago
        What could be more American than that?
      - thrower123 6y ago
        What domestic passenger ships? There's a handful of cruise ships that are US flagged specifically for the Hawaii route. That's it. If you're concerned about car ferries, you can make specific laws about them. Or better yet, New York state could, since that's in their jurisdiction.
        rtkwe 6y ago
        It's a bit of a few different thigns. There are tons of ferries across the US and getting rid of that rule would require either rewriting the law to maintain the change for them or for every state along the coasts to do their own regulating. Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US.
        thrower123 6y ago
        > Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US. This is the original purpose of the law, but it has failed completely and utterly. At some point you have to stand back and survey what the actual results of legislation are, as opposed to the intended results, and if those two aren't in any way congruent, scrap things and start over.
        vkou 6y ago
        It only 'really failed' Puerto Rico. Airlines have similar rules, yet I never see people grousing that you can't take an Air Malay flight from Chicago to LA.
        jjk166 6y ago
        The domestic ship building industry imploded. America is an economic empire built on maritime shipping with only one remaining commercial shipyard capable of producing large vessels, and it is being kept alive with government contracts.
      - Chris2048 6y ago
        Where would those foreign workers live? In the ship?
        sandworm101 6y ago
        Yes. That is exactly how such things are done.
        Chris2048 6y ago
        Hmm, I didn't think it was legal for foreign nationals to live (be resident) just offshore like that..
        sandworm101 6y ago
        Such as all of those manning the cruise ships sailing out of US ports? Every large ship sitting in s US harbor has forgien workers living aboard.
        Chris2048 6y ago
        I would have assumed cruise-ship workers would come on land for long port stays. And that larger cargo vessels wouldn't stay long. How long can you stay in one place before it counts as residency?
        sandworm101 6y ago
        Syrian sailor stranded on abandoned cargo ship off Egyptian coast - BBC News Apr. 6, 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM The Egyptians have told him he cannot leave the ship. He has been stuck as its "master" for over a year. These things happen in the world of international shipping. Human rights tend to disappear.
        Chris2048 6y ago
    - Ichthypresbyter 6y ago
      The problem isn't so much the flag requirements as the other ones- especially the requirement that the ship must be built in the US.
  - doikor 6y ago
    The cruise line business is very cyclical so the companies hold really big piles of cash for when things get slow (like 2007-2008 financial crisis) All the big companies had a couple billions each sitting around just for shit like this. They just fired most of the crew (they still need to have 100+ crew per ship to keep them in good condition) and anchored them waiting for better days. With this reduction in costs they could easily wait out a year or two for business to come back. Wendover Productions did an excellent video on the topic https://youtu.be/N4dOCfWlgBw https://youtu.be/N4dOCfWlgBw (including how they solved getting their tens of thousands of employees back home when planes were not flying really)

wongarsu 6y ago

Cruise lines seem to have survived just fine and are starting operations back up (for vaccinated passengers). And if you believe that all publicity is good publicity they should have no problems filling those ships

lifeisstillgood 6y ago
This is turning out to be an interesting business model - there are obviously the "pay us and we keep your money, but keep offering you future cruises till the pandemic is over" Additionally they are now offering "single country cruises" - start in one country, sail from port to port in same country - which radically simplified the vaccination
- thrower123 6y ago
  It'd be nice if the US would ditch it's statutes from the late 19th century that make it illegal for foreign-flagged vessels from taking passengers from one US port to another. This is why, for example, almost all Alaskan cruises sail from Vancouver.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Without those rules, what is to stop foreign vessels from replacing domestic passenger ships? The Staten Island ferry might just adopt a foreign flag and staff the ships according to foreign (ie cheap) labor laws.
    - netflixandkill 6y ago
      A better law that more precisely addresses the various situations instead of depending on the verbiage chosen by the long dead.
      - sandworm101 6y ago
        >> verbiage chosen by the long dead. Look at the average age of the people writing laws. I'd say that 90% or more of current law was created by people now "long dead".
    - excalibur 6y ago
      What could be more American than that?
    - thrower123 6y ago
      What domestic passenger ships? There's a handful of cruise ships that are US flagged specifically for the Hawaii route. That's it. If you're concerned about car ferries, you can make specific laws about them. Or better yet, New York state could, since that's in their jurisdiction.
      - rtkwe 6y ago
        It's a bit of a few different thigns. There are tons of ferries across the US and getting rid of that rule would require either rewriting the law to maintain the change for them or for every state along the coasts to do their own regulating. Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US.
        thrower123 6y ago
        > Then there's a desire to maintain some domestic shipping and ship building industry from a national security standpoint and from the goal of protecting the environment immediately around the US. This is the original purpose of the law, but it has failed completely and utterly. At some point you have to stand back and survey what the actual results of legislation are, as opposed to the intended results, and if those two aren't in any way congruent, scrap things and start over.
        vkou 6y ago
        It only 'really failed' Puerto Rico. Airlines have similar rules, yet I never see people grousing that you can't take an Air Malay flight from Chicago to LA.
        jjk166 6y ago
        The domestic ship building industry imploded. America is an economic empire built on maritime shipping with only one remaining commercial shipyard capable of producing large vessels, and it is being kept alive with government contracts.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      Where would those foreign workers live? In the ship?
      - sandworm101 6y ago
        Yes. That is exactly how such things are done.
        Chris2048 6y ago
        Hmm, I didn't think it was legal for foreign nationals to live (be resident) just offshore like that..
        sandworm101 6y ago
        Such as all of those manning the cruise ships sailing out of US ports? Every large ship sitting in s US harbor has forgien workers living aboard.
        Chris2048 6y ago
        I would have assumed cruise-ship workers would come on land for long port stays. And that larger cargo vessels wouldn't stay long. How long can you stay in one place before it counts as residency?
        sandworm101 6y ago
        Syrian sailor stranded on abandoned cargo ship off Egyptian coast - BBC News Apr. 6, 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyU6NtwspLM The Egyptians have told him he cannot leave the ship. He has been stuck as its "master" for over a year. These things happen in the world of international shipping. Human rights tend to disappear.
        Chris2048 6y ago
  - Ichthypresbyter 6y ago
    The problem isn't so much the flag requirements as the other ones- especially the requirement that the ship must be built in the US.
- doikor 6y ago
  The cruise line business is very cyclical so the companies hold really big piles of cash for when things get slow (like 2007-2008 financial crisis) All the big companies had a couple billions each sitting around just for shit like this. They just fired most of the crew (they still need to have 100+ crew per ship to keep them in good condition) and anchored them waiting for better days. With this reduction in costs they could easily wait out a year or two for business to come back. Wendover Productions did an excellent video on the topic https://youtu.be/N4dOCfWlgBw https://youtu.be/N4dOCfWlgBw (including how they solved getting their tens of thousands of employees back home when planes were not flying really)