3 ms·

> The amount of unused space is Berlin is just so massive. What's wrong with that? Enjoy the little green space you have left while it lasts. Have a BBQ with f

> The amount of unused space is Berlin is just so massive. What's wrong with that? Enjoy the little green space you have left while it lasts. Have a BBQ with friends over there, maybe? The gentrifiers/developers won't be so long to remove every last bit of green and freedom in your neighborhood, as they did everywhere else.

jdasdf 6y ago
>What's wrong with that? ...The high housing prices.
- southerntofu 6y ago
  High housing prices has to do with treating housing as a market and not as a basic human need. Prices are correlated to supply and demand, only if you take into account that the biggest landlords willingly leave apartments/buildings empty to drive up the prices (speculation).
  - yokaze 6y ago
    Okay, then the lack of housing.
    - southerntofu 6y ago
      If you have statistics, i'm interested, but to my knowledge there is no housing shortage in Berlin. If anything, there's more housing than ever before, it's just trapped in the hands of landlords who want to speculate on it.
      - yokaze 6y ago
        The point is, it wouldn't matter if it is trapped in the hands of landlords who want to speculate, if there is enough housing to go around, because they couldn't determine the market. It is illegal to keep an apartment empty for more then three months. So if you are aware of any empty housing, feel free to denounce it (https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/wohnen/zweckentfremdung_wohnraum/ https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/wohnen/zweckentfremdu...). In 2018, 1,9% of the flats in Mitte were subject to an ongoing official procedure on those grounds. The owner can simply claim, they are reforming, but I presume there are limits to that too. How many flats are really empty is unclear. I've read that according to the Senat, - there is an estimated 0.8%-2% of the flats unoccupied - down from 3.5% in 2011 - ideally, it would be between 2-3%. The Taz is not particularly strong on keeping opinion from facts separated, but that's where I got it from: (https://taz.de/Spekulativer-Leerstand-in-Berlin/!5749397/ https://taz.de/Spekulativer-Leerstand-in-Berlin/!5749397/)
ahoka 6y ago
I think you wouldn't enjoy your BBQ in a place like this, which is I think the OP refers to: https://www.alamy.com/berlin-germany-new-buildings-and-industrial-ruins-on-the-peninsula-stralau-on-the-rummelsburger-bay-and-the-undeveloped-bank-between-kynaststrasse-and-glasblaeserallee-image209534294.html https://www.alamy.com/berlin-germany-new-buildings-and-indus...
- southerntofu 6y ago
  Actually i did quite a few times! I would not recommend to live in a place like this due to high industrial pollution, but a brownfield is quite nice to have a neighborhood BBQ with some music... COVID/police concerns aside, of course.
dgellow 6y ago
Nobody is talking about removing the green parts. I'm talking about completely unused wasteland in active parts of the city. The space could be used to create actual parks, stores, or more housing units, but it is instead just a place where dust, wild plants, and waste accumulate.

jdasdf 6y ago

>What's wrong with that? ...The high housing prices.

southerntofu 6y ago
High housing prices has to do with treating housing as a market and not as a basic human need. Prices are correlated to supply and demand, only if you take into account that the biggest landlords willingly leave apartments/buildings empty to drive up the prices (speculation).
- yokaze 6y ago
  Okay, then the lack of housing.
  - southerntofu 6y ago
    If you have statistics, i'm interested, but to my knowledge there is no housing shortage in Berlin. If anything, there's more housing than ever before, it's just trapped in the hands of landlords who want to speculate on it.
    - yokaze 6y ago
      The point is, it wouldn't matter if it is trapped in the hands of landlords who want to speculate, if there is enough housing to go around, because they couldn't determine the market. It is illegal to keep an apartment empty for more then three months. So if you are aware of any empty housing, feel free to denounce it (https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/wohnen/zweckentfremdung_wohnraum/ https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/wohnen/zweckentfremdu...). In 2018, 1,9% of the flats in Mitte were subject to an ongoing official procedure on those grounds. The owner can simply claim, they are reforming, but I presume there are limits to that too. How many flats are really empty is unclear. I've read that according to the Senat, - there is an estimated 0.8%-2% of the flats unoccupied - down from 3.5% in 2011 - ideally, it would be between 2-3%. The Taz is not particularly strong on keeping opinion from facts separated, but that's where I got it from: (https://taz.de/Spekulativer-Leerstand-in-Berlin/!5749397/ https://taz.de/Spekulativer-Leerstand-in-Berlin/!5749397/)

ahoka 6y ago

I think you wouldn't enjoy your BBQ in a place like this, which is I think the OP refers to: https://www.alamy.com/berlin-germany-new-buildings-and-industrial-ruins-on-the-peninsula-stralau-on-the-rummelsburger-bay-and-the-undeveloped-bank-between-kynaststrasse-and-glasblaeserallee-image209534294.html https://www.alamy.com/berlin-germany-new-buildings-and-indus...

southerntofu 6y ago
Actually i did quite a few times! I would not recommend to live in a place like this due to high industrial pollution, but a brownfield is quite nice to have a neighborhood BBQ with some music... COVID/police concerns aside, of course.

dgellow 6y ago

Nobody is talking about removing the green parts. I'm talking about completely unused wasteland in active parts of the city. The space could be used to create actual parks, stores, or more housing units, but it is instead just a place where dust, wild plants, and waste accumulate.