6 ms·

In what way were their minds ruined?

by acchow 6y ago

spoiler 6y ago
Not OP, but there can be a few things they're alluring to. Some disassociatives are often put into the "psychedelic," and they can cause addiction. Ketamine begin an example. People begin chasing the previous high, which often means higher doses and more money. Some more ignorant people put MDMA (and family) of drugs into this category as well. These drugs are highly neurotoxic, and require a lot of "prep" to take to reduce their neurotoxicity (it's arguable to what degree this prep helps). Moreover frequent user of this can in some people (ie people succeptible to depression) cause a long-term disbalance in their serotonin system (some people take weeks to recover from even one usage). People who have some mental "precondition" (eg such as psychosis, etc) can have some extremely severe response and permanent "side effects" (for a lackeof better expressions) from psychedelics, and never recover. An extremely small percentage of people have what's called Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD). Some people find it fun, some don't mind it, while some can't function because of it. Quality of substance you acquire can also vary. On the black market things are often mislabelled or cut with other substances that are easier/cheaper to produce. One notable examples is NBOMe being sold as LSD. NBOMe is more dangerous for a few reasons that I won't be getting into in this post. Always test your stuff with test kits, or if you're not comfortable with that, sense a small bit of your batch to a testing lab (there's a few anonymous/free ones in Europe). Lastly, there's always ignorance or risk of being too "casual" about taking psychedelic due to familiarity with them. This leads to accidental drug combinations (eg some antidepressants + some psychedelics) don't combined well. Aimee just diminished the other, but people reported more severe symptoms. People also combine things recreationally without researching things properly, which can be a bad combo. Speaking of antidepressants and psychedelics: a notable thing to mention is that Lithium salts and LSD have been reported to lead to terors, seizures, and maybe even death (as reported on erowid). I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. In my personal experience, they can be wonderful and provide healing experiences. However, we need to always be careful when using them, because they have such a profound effect on our minds, and we still understand so little about the mind itself. With that in mind (no pun intended), treat them with respect they deserve!
- spoiler 6y ago
  Off-topic: writing long form text on a phone is such a chore. I can't edit the typos anymore, but just to clarify: "Aimee" was meant to be "mostly they". There's also a few words dropped here and there, but it doesn't impact readability as much.
vermilingua 6y ago
Any psychadelics (and I think cannabis as well, but much more rarely) can cause a psychotic break, which can’t always be recovered from. It seems to be more prevalent if there is a family history of psychosis. No source, just anecdata, the circles I run in.
- vmception 6y ago
  Even with cannabis, states have no FDA that is prepared to do studies and I just wish a basic level of known side effects were listed from the actual FDA which they do for studied and much more harmful drugs, because they were studied When you add all the other scheduled drugs that have no state level recreational framework, then you no studies and you also have a compounded supply chain problem where nobody knows what they’re actually consuming There are molecule combinations out there which can cause instant parkinson’s disease nobody can give a real case about “the friend of friend” who went crazy because of the illegality and imagined or real liability and its not fair to say “this drug is perfectly safe stop fearmongering, oh wait you should have known about your family history of schizophrenia never mind then lol too late, but everyone else dont listen to that person” this isn’t directed at you, just a collection of things said in the psychadelic community pretty reliably bothersome.
  - Covzire 6y ago
    >nobody can give a real case about “the friend of friend” who went crazy This is a very good point. I'm not going to suggest that the commonly cited anecdotes are all wrong or misguided, but a lot of well meaning people throw around anecdotes but just like a discussion about flat earthers, everyone knows about them but virtually nobody seems to actually know any personally. In 2016 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) cited 37,461 people died due to automobile accidents. Those are easily traceable numbers because they create a tremendous amount of paperwork and news articles. But with psychedelics there is a very odd disconnect between the perception of their danger and the extreme lack of actual medical/scientific evidence that actually gets cited.
  - bigfudge 6y ago
    > There are molecule combinations out there which can cause instant parkinson’s disease Is this real or exaggeration for effect? It sounds implausible...
rednum 6y ago
Not OP, but I've met people that seemed to sort of lost their agency and ambition, because their psychedelic insight was that the universe will sort everything out on its own. Though maybe the causality is the other way round here - they were not ambitious in the first place and psychedelic insight helped rationalise that. Also disclaimer: I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. Personally I believe they should not be criminalised, but people should be cautious using them.
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Just a personal note, I experienced the complete opposite. I knew I wanted to do great things and accomplish things of importance, but depression was like a black cloud holding me back from doing so. Psychedelics took away that cloud and also infused a deep level of meaning into my everyday life. I went from depressed and basically dropping off the edge of the world to traveling across the world and starting a startup with new friends in a different continent, which was just now recently acquired. What might interest you is all the psychedelics I did were technically legal. Shoutout to 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT.
  - gpcr1949 6y ago
    4-HO-DMT is psilocin, which is illegal in most places.
  - temp0826 6y ago
    Fwiw 4-HO-DMT is psilocin (it and psilocybin are both in mushrooms in varying amounts; and psilocybin metabolizes into it in the body). It probably wasn't legal. 4-AcO-DMT is a bit more of a grey area (probably covered by the analogues act; allegedly also metabolizes to psilocin in the body too).
    - sebmellen 6y ago
      You're very right, that was a late-night bleary-eyed mistake. 4-HO-MET (thanks to TiHKAL) is what I meant to type.
  - 6y ago

In what way were their minds ruined?

by acchow 6y ago

In what way were their minds ruined?

Not OP, but there can be a few things they're alluring to. Some disassociatives are often put into the "psychedelic," and they can cause addiction. Ketamine begin an example. People begin chasing the previous high, which often means higher doses and more money. Some more ignorant people put MDMA (and family) of drugs into this category as well. These drugs are highly neurotoxic, and require a lot of "prep" to take to reduce their neurotoxicity (it's arguable to what degree this prep helps). Moreover frequent user of this can in some people (ie people succeptible to depression) cause a long-term disbalance in their serotonin system (some people take weeks to recover from even one usage). People who have some mental "precondition" (eg such as psychosis, etc) can have some extremely severe response and permanent "side effects" (for a lackeof better expressions) from psychedelics, and never recover. An extremely small percentage of people have what's called Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD). Some people find it fun, some don't mind it, while some can't function because of it. Quality of substance you acquire can also vary. On the black market things are often mislabelled or cut with other substances that are easier/cheaper to produce. One notable examples is NBOMe being sold as LSD. NBOMe is more dangerous for a few reasons that I won't be getting into in this post. Always test your stuff with test kits, or if you're not comfortable with that, sense a small bit of your batch to a testing lab (there's a few anonymous/free ones in Europe). Lastly, there's always ignorance or risk of being too "casual" about taking psychedelic due to familiarity with them. This leads to accidental drug combinations (eg some antidepressants + some psychedelics) don't combined well. Aimee just diminished the other, but people reported more severe symptoms. People also combine things recreationally without researching things properly, which can be a bad combo. Speaking of antidepressants and psychedelics: a notable thing to mention is that Lithium salts and LSD have been reported to lead to terors, seizures, and maybe even death (as reported on erowid). I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. In my personal experience, they can be wonderful and provide healing experiences. However, we need to always be careful when using them, because they have such a profound effect on our minds, and we still understand so little about the mind itself. With that in mind (no pun intended), treat them with respect they deserve!

spoiler 6y ago
Off-topic: writing long form text on a phone is such a chore. I can't edit the typos anymore, but just to clarify: "Aimee" was meant to be "mostly they". There's also a few words dropped here and there, but it doesn't impact readability as much.

vermilingua 6y ago

Any psychadelics (and I think cannabis as well, but much more rarely) can cause a psychotic break, which can’t always be recovered from. It seems to be more prevalent if there is a family history of psychosis. No source, just anecdata, the circles I run in.

vmception 6y ago
Even with cannabis, states have no FDA that is prepared to do studies and I just wish a basic level of known side effects were listed from the actual FDA which they do for studied and much more harmful drugs, because they were studied When you add all the other scheduled drugs that have no state level recreational framework, then you no studies and you also have a compounded supply chain problem where nobody knows what they’re actually consuming There are molecule combinations out there which can cause instant parkinson’s disease nobody can give a real case about “the friend of friend” who went crazy because of the illegality and imagined or real liability and its not fair to say “this drug is perfectly safe stop fearmongering, oh wait you should have known about your family history of schizophrenia never mind then lol too late, but everyone else dont listen to that person” this isn’t directed at you, just a collection of things said in the psychadelic community pretty reliably bothersome.
- Covzire 6y ago
  >nobody can give a real case about “the friend of friend” who went crazy This is a very good point. I'm not going to suggest that the commonly cited anecdotes are all wrong or misguided, but a lot of well meaning people throw around anecdotes but just like a discussion about flat earthers, everyone knows about them but virtually nobody seems to actually know any personally. In 2016 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) cited 37,461 people died due to automobile accidents. Those are easily traceable numbers because they create a tremendous amount of paperwork and news articles. But with psychedelics there is a very odd disconnect between the perception of their danger and the extreme lack of actual medical/scientific evidence that actually gets cited.
- bigfudge 6y ago
  > There are molecule combinations out there which can cause instant parkinson’s disease Is this real or exaggeration for effect? It sounds implausible...

rednum 6y ago

Not OP, but I've met people that seemed to sort of lost their agency and ambition, because their psychedelic insight was that the universe will sort everything out on its own. Though maybe the causality is the other way round here - they were not ambitious in the first place and psychedelic insight helped rationalise that. Also disclaimer: I'm not trying to discourage or encourage people from psychedelics. Personally I believe they should not be criminalised, but people should be cautious using them.

sebmellen 6y ago
Just a personal note, I experienced the complete opposite. I knew I wanted to do great things and accomplish things of importance, but depression was like a black cloud holding me back from doing so. Psychedelics took away that cloud and also infused a deep level of meaning into my everyday life. I went from depressed and basically dropping off the edge of the world to traveling across the world and starting a startup with new friends in a different continent, which was just now recently acquired. What might interest you is all the psychedelics I did were technically legal. Shoutout to 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT.
- gpcr1949 6y ago
  4-HO-DMT is psilocin, which is illegal in most places.
- temp0826 6y ago
  Fwiw 4-HO-DMT is psilocin (it and psilocybin are both in mushrooms in varying amounts; and psilocybin metabolizes into it in the body). It probably wasn't legal. 4-AcO-DMT is a bit more of a grey area (probably covered by the analogues act; allegedly also metabolizes to psilocin in the body too).
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    You're very right, that was a late-night bleary-eyed mistake. 4-HO-MET (thanks to TiHKAL) is what I meant to type.
- 6y ago