5 ms·

The study was just published in the most prestigious medical journal in the world [1]. Whatever you think of the study, this is rather significant. If you told

by Gatsky 6y ago

The study was just published in the most prestigious medical journal in the world [1]. Whatever you think of the study, this is rather significant. If you told me even 2 years ago there would be a randomised trial of magic mushrooms in NEJM, I would not have believed it for even a second. One point not to miss is that they screened 1000 patients to come up with the study population of 59. Nevertheless, I consider the study result quite promising, considering patients only had 2 doses of psilocybin. [1] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032994 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2032994

ButtSpark69 6y ago
"If you told me even 2 years ago there would be a randomised trial of magic mushrooms in NEJM, I would not have believed it for even a second." In a lot of ways, that's completely depressing for how slowly we've come as a species.
- refurb 6y ago
  Wait until you learn some history about how regressed!
- sneak 6y ago
  I agree wholeheartedly, Mister ButtSpark69. For all our civilization's progress, we still have so far to go.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- o_p 6y ago
  Maybe some mushrooms could help you with that
- Fricken 6y ago
  "The species" has been using psychedelics in religious ceremonies for a long time. We're just out of the loop.
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    > "The species" has been using psychedelics in religious ceremonies for a long time. Arguably for thousands of years, as well.
philshem 6y ago
Due to the stigma of psychedelics, there has been a long gap in research, which may have started with 1962 "Good Friday Experiment" > Almost all of the members of the experimental group reported experiencing profound religious experiences, providing empirical support for the notion that psychedelic drugs can facilitate religious experiences. One of the participants in the experiment was religious scholar Huston Smith, who would become an author of several textbooks on comparative religion. He later described his experience as "the most powerful cosmic homecoming I have ever experienced". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Chapel_Experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Chapel_Experiment
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- petemir 6y ago
  For a complete story about psychedelic research I recommend “How to Change Your Mind” by Michael Pollan.
mrwww 6y ago
2 doses of psilocybin, vs 6 weeks of SSRI's..! They also seem to cite a big difference in lasting happiness, altough that wasnt the focus of the study.
- varispeed 6y ago
  You can clearly see why psilocybin is illegal. Follow the money... I hope one day the companies and people behind this will go to jail.
- GordonS 6y ago
  And some folks have a really tough time coming off SSRIs too, with bad withdrawal symptoms (extreme anxiety, panic attacks, tremor, hallucinations, memory loss, confusion...) even when tapering over several weeks.
say_it_as_it_is 6y ago
The definition of treatment resistant depression is one of the filters that narrows down the list. A subject must have tried at least two different antidepressants for a certain length of time and within the last few years, in addition to therapy. So, someone who has taken antidepressants for years doesn't automatically qualify.
- varispeed 6y ago
  This is crazy. It's like cart manufacturers lobbied government that anyone who want to buy a car would first have to use a horse and a cart and only be allowed to buy a car if the cart and a horse causes significant problem. Am I the only one seeing corruption here?
  - rincebrain 6y ago
    If your attempted argument is "X helps people who are not helped by other existing treatments", then limiting your selection criteria to those who have tried several existing treatments and not found success seems to follow logically. (Though the study's construction seems to fail at that argument, since the claim is that all patients, both those given the psilocybin and those given the SSRI, improved markedly.)
    - varispeed 6y ago
      When I wrote that, I had in mind a situation in my country that you can be eligible for private medical cannabis prescription if you try at least two other treatments and you find them ineffective. On the surface it doesn't sound too sinister, but for example, when it comes to chronic pain the drugs that are being given are simply nasty. I still have nightmares about the side effects that I experienced (vivid hallucinations, suicidal thoughts, derealization and more). Given how ubiquitous cannabis is, people with various problems often find, including chronic pain, that it helps massively and unfortunately they cannot bypass going through hell just to get prescription for what helps. They cannot even suggest that they look for medicinal cannabis as they still may be branded as drug seekers and be denied treatment altogether.
loceng 6y ago
"One point not to miss is that they screened 1000 patients to come up with the study population of 59." I'd be curious how many 10,000s if not 100,000s of people pharmaceutical companies go through, along with changing/crafting their selection criteria to keep out people/symptoms they know have more/strong "side"/harmful effects with, until they get acceptable looking results; propaganda using truth - "Misleading with true fact" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lls_2tfWcUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lls_2tfWcUI
bigfudge 6y ago
>they screened 1000 patients to come up with the study population of 59 Note that while not ideal this is completely normal for any early stage drug trial. Most drugs get licenced based on data in which the trials would have excluded 90%+ of the typical clinical population. This is certainly true in depression where most drug trials will exclude patients with comorbid MH conditions, and often exclude them for "too many previous episodes". But it's also true in physical health (e.g. asthma). I'm sure it's even harder when recruiting for an RCT in psychedelics though. A friend was working on clinical applications of MDMA about 15 years ago and a stipulation of the ethics board was that her participants had to have taken MDMA at least 3 times before, but not more than 10 times. Not easy to recruit for that study!

by Gatsky 6y ago

ButtSpark69 6y ago

"If you told me even 2 years ago there would be a randomised trial of magic mushrooms in NEJM, I would not have believed it for even a second." In a lot of ways, that's completely depressing for how slowly we've come as a species.

refurb 6y ago
Wait until you learn some history about how regressed!
sneak 6y ago
I agree wholeheartedly, Mister ButtSpark69. For all our civilization's progress, we still have so far to go.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
o_p 6y ago
Maybe some mushrooms could help you with that
Fricken 6y ago
"The species" has been using psychedelics in religious ceremonies for a long time. We're just out of the loop.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  > "The species" has been using psychedelics in religious ceremonies for a long time. Arguably for thousands of years, as well.

philshem 6y ago

Due to the stigma of psychedelics, there has been a long gap in research, which may have started with 1962 "Good Friday Experiment" > Almost all of the members of the experimental group reported experiencing profound religious experiences, providing empirical support for the notion that psychedelic drugs can facilitate religious experiences. One of the participants in the experiment was religious scholar Huston Smith, who would become an author of several textbooks on comparative religion. He later described his experience as "the most powerful cosmic homecoming I have ever experienced". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Chapel_Experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Chapel_Experiment

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
petemir 6y ago
For a complete story about psychedelic research I recommend “How to Change Your Mind” by Michael Pollan.

mrwww 6y ago

2 doses of psilocybin, vs 6 weeks of SSRI's..! They also seem to cite a big difference in lasting happiness, altough that wasnt the focus of the study.

varispeed 6y ago
You can clearly see why psilocybin is illegal. Follow the money... I hope one day the companies and people behind this will go to jail.
GordonS 6y ago
And some folks have a really tough time coming off SSRIs too, with bad withdrawal symptoms (extreme anxiety, panic attacks, tremor, hallucinations, memory loss, confusion...) even when tapering over several weeks.

say_it_as_it_is 6y ago

The definition of treatment resistant depression is one of the filters that narrows down the list. A subject must have tried at least two different antidepressants for a certain length of time and within the last few years, in addition to therapy. So, someone who has taken antidepressants for years doesn't automatically qualify.

varispeed 6y ago
This is crazy. It's like cart manufacturers lobbied government that anyone who want to buy a car would first have to use a horse and a cart and only be allowed to buy a car if the cart and a horse causes significant problem. Am I the only one seeing corruption here?
- rincebrain 6y ago
  If your attempted argument is "X helps people who are not helped by other existing treatments", then limiting your selection criteria to those who have tried several existing treatments and not found success seems to follow logically. (Though the study's construction seems to fail at that argument, since the claim is that all patients, both those given the psilocybin and those given the SSRI, improved markedly.)
  - varispeed 6y ago
    When I wrote that, I had in mind a situation in my country that you can be eligible for private medical cannabis prescription if you try at least two other treatments and you find them ineffective. On the surface it doesn't sound too sinister, but for example, when it comes to chronic pain the drugs that are being given are simply nasty. I still have nightmares about the side effects that I experienced (vivid hallucinations, suicidal thoughts, derealization and more). Given how ubiquitous cannabis is, people with various problems often find, including chronic pain, that it helps massively and unfortunately they cannot bypass going through hell just to get prescription for what helps. They cannot even suggest that they look for medicinal cannabis as they still may be branded as drug seekers and be denied treatment altogether.

loceng 6y ago

"One point not to miss is that they screened 1000 patients to come up with the study population of 59." I'd be curious how many 10,000s if not 100,000s of people pharmaceutical companies go through, along with changing/crafting their selection criteria to keep out people/symptoms they know have more/strong "side"/harmful effects with, until they get acceptable looking results; propaganda using truth - "Misleading with true fact" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lls_2tfWcUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lls_2tfWcUI

bigfudge 6y ago

>they screened 1000 patients to come up with the study population of 59 Note that while not ideal this is completely normal for any early stage drug trial. Most drugs get licenced based on data in which the trials would have excluded 90%+ of the typical clinical population. This is certainly true in depression where most drug trials will exclude patients with comorbid MH conditions, and often exclude them for "too many previous episodes". But it's also true in physical health (e.g. asthma). I'm sure it's even harder when recruiting for an RCT in psychedelics though. A friend was working on clinical applications of MDMA about 15 years ago and a stipulation of the ethics board was that her participants had to have taken MDMA at least 3 times before, but not more than 10 times. Not easy to recruit for that study!