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I don’t want to live in a world where the solution to depression (caused by governments, politicians, or general existence in the modern capitalist world) is a

I don’t want to live in a world where the solution to depression (caused by governments, politicians, or general existence in the modern capitalist world) is a drug. Not a good idea. Instead, figure out why depression has increased so dramatically in the last ~century and address that.

pengaru 5y ago
I don't want to live in a world where how you want the world to look affects my freedom to eat certain foods.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Nowhere did I say that prohibition is a good idea. The article isn’t about that, it’s about using drugs to “cure” depression.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    In cases where depression is caused by whackadoodle brain chemistry, this might actually be a completely reasonable answer.
    - ceilingcorner 5y ago
      Yes probably, but the most upvoted example in this topic is about curing depression from lockdowns. I don’t want to live in a world where the cure to depression caused by forced lockdowns is to take psychedelics. That seems very dystopian.
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        What causes depression during lockdown? Is it lack of exposure to sunlight? Is it lack of exercise? Is it eating more poorly? Is it people being confined to spaces that may not be that clean that they normally leave during the day, thus exposing them to more mold and germs? It isn't necessarily dystopian. It may still be a valid and genuine treatment, though I agree it would be better to understand more thoroughly why it works, not just that it works. A former medical professional once told me "The answers you want for how this OTC drug works at the cellular level don't exist. That isn't actually what drug studies cover." I don't disagree with your aims. I simply disagree with some of your implicit assumptions.
        ceilingcorner 5y ago
        What are my implicit assumptions? That locking human beings in their houses is by default a negative thing that will cause depression? That seems obvious to me. Animals don’t like being in cages.
        DoreenMichele 5y ago
        That it's merely psychological, not biological. I'm not depressed. I'm a brunette for the first time in a decade or more. I live without a car and the sun typically keeps my hair bleached out to a shade of blonde. But I have a serious medical condition and already did remote work and germ control is my life. I had a longstanding issue resolve about six months. For the first time in decades, I'm mostly not suicidal anymore. To whatever degree depression is biological in origin, drugs may be a reasonable treatment. Granted, curing sick building syndrome and other root causes may be better in the long run. But it can take ages to confidently identify such things, educate people, find solutions, etc. In the mean time, a new drug option for a biologically based ailment may do wonders for people in the here and now. I routinely treat somatopsychic issues with diet and exercise. I also routinely get dismissed by internet strangers as a nutter. So I'm confident that the answer you want both exists and will take an excessively long time to distribute to a meaningful portion of the human population.
        amanaplanacanal 5y ago
        Where do you live that you are locked in your house? I haven’t seen that where I am.
    - solaceb 5y ago
      We don't know whackadoodle brain chemistry from Adam; it's a massive assumption to attribute depression towards something so misunderstood as our neurochemistry. You might as well say it's due to the phlogiston in our heads.
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        My life experience falls pretty far outside the Overton Window. Suffice it to say: I don't agree.
Viker 5y ago
But you don't mind the current state of affairs where everyone is being ingested with sugar and caffeine? Are those not drugs? Office productivity is directly corrolated to the coffe machine. The moment that breaks down everything stops. Coincidence, or are we all addicted to a drug?
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Where did I say anything about caffeine and its acceptability? Don’t read things into my comments that aren’t there.
  - Viker 5y ago
    What I meant was: "why do you not mind the current state, where the workforce is ingested with "drugs"" Yet you don't like the idea of "drugs" actually making people's live better? The current world... Capitalism and political systems, is just an emergent result of society's internal stress, it is pendulum between, trying to making it and giving up to depression...what if we can actually balance that with a slight change to our diet of, vitamins, food supplements, neuro stimulants ( coffe, sugar)... Maybe we just need to sprinkle som psylocibin on top?
mahathu 5y ago
> why depression has increased so dramatically in the last ~century and address that has it? Were our current guidelines to diagnose depressive episodes with around a century ago?
- jerrygoyal 5y ago
  > has it? an anecdote but i think yes. pre-internet you wouldn't know what's happening outside of your community. Now, internet (IG, tiktok, fb, TechCrunch) surfaces the best of the world before your eyes.. it's a constant reminder there exist better people in whatever area you value (could be a skill, appearance, material things)
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Ye, it has, and also many other forms of mental illness. > Were our current guidelines to diagnose depressive episodes with around a century ago? Certainly not, but researchers are very capable of looking at historical records and detect evidence to treated or untreated conditions. Furthermore, people have been describing their own emotions and other people's behaviors since recorded history. There's an army of psychologists, anthropologist, sociologists and geneticists out there studying the history of mental illness. Among many, prof. Sapolsky comes to mind.
ewindal 5y ago
I didn’t know my father’s suicide and my subsequent depression was caused by governments, politicians, or general existence in the modern capitalist world. Thanks for giving me this deep insight.
the_only_law 5y ago
You already live in that world now. What do you think think they give your for depression?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

pengaru 5y ago

I don't want to live in a world where how you want the world to look affects my freedom to eat certain foods.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
Nowhere did I say that prohibition is a good idea. The article isn’t about that, it’s about using drugs to “cure” depression.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  In cases where depression is caused by whackadoodle brain chemistry, this might actually be a completely reasonable answer.
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    Yes probably, but the most upvoted example in this topic is about curing depression from lockdowns. I don’t want to live in a world where the cure to depression caused by forced lockdowns is to take psychedelics. That seems very dystopian.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      What causes depression during lockdown? Is it lack of exposure to sunlight? Is it lack of exercise? Is it eating more poorly? Is it people being confined to spaces that may not be that clean that they normally leave during the day, thus exposing them to more mold and germs? It isn't necessarily dystopian. It may still be a valid and genuine treatment, though I agree it would be better to understand more thoroughly why it works, not just that it works. A former medical professional once told me "The answers you want for how this OTC drug works at the cellular level don't exist. That isn't actually what drug studies cover." I don't disagree with your aims. I simply disagree with some of your implicit assumptions.
      - ceilingcorner 5y ago
        What are my implicit assumptions? That locking human beings in their houses is by default a negative thing that will cause depression? That seems obvious to me. Animals don’t like being in cages.
        DoreenMichele 5y ago
        That it's merely psychological, not biological. I'm not depressed. I'm a brunette for the first time in a decade or more. I live without a car and the sun typically keeps my hair bleached out to a shade of blonde. But I have a serious medical condition and already did remote work and germ control is my life. I had a longstanding issue resolve about six months. For the first time in decades, I'm mostly not suicidal anymore. To whatever degree depression is biological in origin, drugs may be a reasonable treatment. Granted, curing sick building syndrome and other root causes may be better in the long run. But it can take ages to confidently identify such things, educate people, find solutions, etc. In the mean time, a new drug option for a biologically based ailment may do wonders for people in the here and now. I routinely treat somatopsychic issues with diet and exercise. I also routinely get dismissed by internet strangers as a nutter. So I'm confident that the answer you want both exists and will take an excessively long time to distribute to a meaningful portion of the human population.
        amanaplanacanal 5y ago
        Where do you live that you are locked in your house? I haven’t seen that where I am.
  - solaceb 5y ago
    We don't know whackadoodle brain chemistry from Adam; it's a massive assumption to attribute depression towards something so misunderstood as our neurochemistry. You might as well say it's due to the phlogiston in our heads.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      My life experience falls pretty far outside the Overton Window. Suffice it to say: I don't agree.

Viker 5y ago

But you don't mind the current state of affairs where everyone is being ingested with sugar and caffeine? Are those not drugs? Office productivity is directly corrolated to the coffe machine. The moment that breaks down everything stops. Coincidence, or are we all addicted to a drug?

ceilingcorner 5y ago
Where did I say anything about caffeine and its acceptability? Don’t read things into my comments that aren’t there.
- Viker 5y ago
  What I meant was: "why do you not mind the current state, where the workforce is ingested with "drugs"" Yet you don't like the idea of "drugs" actually making people's live better? The current world... Capitalism and political systems, is just an emergent result of society's internal stress, it is pendulum between, trying to making it and giving up to depression...what if we can actually balance that with a slight change to our diet of, vitamins, food supplements, neuro stimulants ( coffe, sugar)... Maybe we just need to sprinkle som psylocibin on top?

mahathu 5y ago

> why depression has increased so dramatically in the last ~century and address that has it? Were our current guidelines to diagnose depressive episodes with around a century ago?

jerrygoyal 5y ago
> has it? an anecdote but i think yes. pre-internet you wouldn't know what's happening outside of your community. Now, internet (IG, tiktok, fb, TechCrunch) surfaces the best of the world before your eyes.. it's a constant reminder there exist better people in whatever area you value (could be a skill, appearance, material things)
goodpoint 5y ago
Ye, it has, and also many other forms of mental illness. > Were our current guidelines to diagnose depressive episodes with around a century ago? Certainly not, but researchers are very capable of looking at historical records and detect evidence to treated or untreated conditions. Furthermore, people have been describing their own emotions and other people's behaviors since recorded history. There's an army of psychologists, anthropologist, sociologists and geneticists out there studying the history of mental illness. Among many, prof. Sapolsky comes to mind.

ewindal 5y ago

I didn’t know my father’s suicide and my subsequent depression was caused by governments, politicians, or general existence in the modern capitalist world. Thanks for giving me this deep insight.

the_only_law 5y ago

You already live in that world now. What do you think think they give your for depression?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]