5 ms·

This fails to account for the fact that IRS currently (and maybe this changes in the future) has a hard time doing serious audits on any significant amount of w

by sgpl 5y ago

This fails to account for the fact that IRS currently (and maybe this changes in the future) has a hard time doing serious audits on any significant amount of wealthy people; and that the agency has pretty much been gutted over the years. [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-irs-was-gutted https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-irs-was-gutted [1] https://www.propublica.org/series/gutting-the-irs https://www.propublica.org/series/gutting-the-irs [2] https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich https://www.gq.com/story/no-irs-audits-for-the-rich

abledon 5y ago
all it takes is for one president in 2030s to create a new branch of gov that pays Google style salaries. would attract the best and brightest to write some powerful tools for all that, no?
- birdyrooster 5y ago
  you and I both know that could never happen, it would get contracted out to Oracle or something
- mike_d 5y ago
  Obama was that forward thinking, charismatic, enlightened leader that people wanted to work for. The White House Digital Service was by any metric a resounding success. But the pay did suck. The problem with the government paying "Google salaries" is who gets them? Is an IRS auditor really worthy of half a million a year in comp? What about the DEA agent deep under cover and risking his life, much more deserving... right? So you create a new branch of the government where keyboard warriors bang out solutions to government problems. Why is one of these hot-shots making what an entire department of inspectors is paid at the USDA? The resentment from other agencies will be a hard barrier to overcome. They also have no incentive to help your new Rockstar Agency to get access to all the data they need so they can put government employees out of work. Not to mention, is it really beneficial to the tax payer to try and compete with tech companies? If FAANG companies start to suffer a talent drain, they will just re-up and double whatever the government offers.
  - paulgb 5y ago
    This makes me wonder, was pay competitive for rocket scientists during the space race, or was the mission so compelling that nobody cared if they were making less than they might have at a defense contractor?
    - mike_d 5y ago
      A friend of mine is an electrician, an in-demand skilled job. He can make +/- 10% working for the government directly, at Lawrence Livermore, or in the private sector. Each has tradeoffs like how interesting the work is or the hours, but in the end the government isn't really less competitive. Now imagine Facebook steps in and wants to hire all the electricians and is willing to pay $750k/yr. Obviously the entire system becomes fucked and the government (or even "normal" businesses) won't be able to find electricians. Don't get me wrong... I like my tech salary. But inserting a player into any market or economy with effectively unlimited resources breaks it.
      - Spooky23 5y ago
        If Facebook could create a local monopoly or competitive advantage to pay electricians $1M/yr, they would to deny the skills to their competitors.
    - randmeerkat 5y ago
      I found this trying to Google around for NASA scientists pay during the space race. Turns out maybe money wasn’t the biggest factor involved. tldr; Korolev, the lead Soviet engineer during the space race died in the middle of it from colon cancer and they never recovered. https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/11/this-is-why-the-soviet-union-lost-the-space-race-to-the-usa/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/11/this...
  - jasonjayr 5y ago
    IRS agents are easy to calculate pay. Base living wage ($70-$90k) + 1-5% of each amount recovered Incentivize pursuing the biggest evaders, and the problem may solve itself.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  That’s the big lie. You just have to pay enough and have a process. I’ve done consulting work for tax agencies. They are full of smart people and are very good, as most government agencies are, at implementing and consistently delivering processes. The problem at the IRS is that a group of people with the ability to influence the purse strings have signed pledges and dedicated careers to make the IRS as ineffective as possible. I have a former associate who is a specialist in a few arcane areas of tax law and has the ability to basically look at the books of any company and figure it out in a day or two. He left because systematic cuts meant that he was one of a half dozen specialists in the country (there were 200+ when he started), and ended up traveling all across the country to testify at trials as an expert. Look at the military as an example of how any government agency works. Billions are spent on weapons systems development with the best and brightest minds. In the field, the applied work is done by 19 year old kids, roughly sorted into an occupational category by IQ.

by sgpl 5y ago

abledon 5y ago

all it takes is for one president in 2030s to create a new branch of gov that pays Google style salaries. would attract the best and brightest to write some powerful tools for all that, no?

birdyrooster 5y ago
you and I both know that could never happen, it would get contracted out to Oracle or something
mike_d 5y ago
Obama was that forward thinking, charismatic, enlightened leader that people wanted to work for. The White House Digital Service was by any metric a resounding success. But the pay did suck. The problem with the government paying "Google salaries" is who gets them? Is an IRS auditor really worthy of half a million a year in comp? What about the DEA agent deep under cover and risking his life, much more deserving... right? So you create a new branch of the government where keyboard warriors bang out solutions to government problems. Why is one of these hot-shots making what an entire department of inspectors is paid at the USDA? The resentment from other agencies will be a hard barrier to overcome. They also have no incentive to help your new Rockstar Agency to get access to all the data they need so they can put government employees out of work. Not to mention, is it really beneficial to the tax payer to try and compete with tech companies? If FAANG companies start to suffer a talent drain, they will just re-up and double whatever the government offers.
- paulgb 5y ago
  This makes me wonder, was pay competitive for rocket scientists during the space race, or was the mission so compelling that nobody cared if they were making less than they might have at a defense contractor?
  - mike_d 5y ago
    A friend of mine is an electrician, an in-demand skilled job. He can make +/- 10% working for the government directly, at Lawrence Livermore, or in the private sector. Each has tradeoffs like how interesting the work is or the hours, but in the end the government isn't really less competitive. Now imagine Facebook steps in and wants to hire all the electricians and is willing to pay $750k/yr. Obviously the entire system becomes fucked and the government (or even "normal" businesses) won't be able to find electricians. Don't get me wrong... I like my tech salary. But inserting a player into any market or economy with effectively unlimited resources breaks it.
    - Spooky23 5y ago
      If Facebook could create a local monopoly or competitive advantage to pay electricians $1M/yr, they would to deny the skills to their competitors.
  - randmeerkat 5y ago
    I found this trying to Google around for NASA scientists pay during the space race. Turns out maybe money wasn’t the biggest factor involved. tldr; Korolev, the lead Soviet engineer during the space race died in the middle of it from colon cancer and they never recovered. https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/11/this-is-why-the-soviet-union-lost-the-space-race-to-the-usa/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2019/07/11/this...
- jasonjayr 5y ago
  IRS agents are easy to calculate pay. Base living wage ($70-$90k) + 1-5% of each amount recovered Incentivize pursuing the biggest evaders, and the problem may solve itself.
Spooky23 5y ago
That’s the big lie. You just have to pay enough and have a process. I’ve done consulting work for tax agencies. They are full of smart people and are very good, as most government agencies are, at implementing and consistently delivering processes. The problem at the IRS is that a group of people with the ability to influence the purse strings have signed pledges and dedicated careers to make the IRS as ineffective as possible. I have a former associate who is a specialist in a few arcane areas of tax law and has the ability to basically look at the books of any company and figure it out in a day or two. He left because systematic cuts meant that he was one of a half dozen specialists in the country (there were 200+ when he started), and ended up traveling all across the country to testify at trials as an expert. Look at the military as an example of how any government agency works. Billions are spent on weapons systems development with the best and brightest minds. In the field, the applied work is done by 19 year old kids, roughly sorted into an occupational category by IQ.