7 ms·

Would this make Linux the first *NIX-based OS that is written in a language other than C? At least, with high usage...

Gaelan 5y ago
I think macOS has some C++ in the kernel, but I'm not sure. And Windows is heavily C++, if you're willing to count WSL1 as "*nix-based".
- saagarjha 5y ago
  The core kernel is pretty much all C, but extensions and drivers are C++, yes.
_joel 5y ago
I'm not sure but even in the short to mid term I can't see it replacing swathes of code already written in C. Drivers and such, maybe
- _joel 5y ago
  Quoted from the post > "Please note that the Rust support is intended to enable writing drivers and similar "leaf" modules in Rust, at least for the foreseeable future. In particular, we do not intend to rewrite the kernel core nor the major kernel subsystems (e.g. `kernel/`, `mm/`, `sched/`...). Instead, the Rust support is built on top of those."
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
If you don't qualify it with "high usage", redox is that. There's also a semantic question; is Linux with some drivers done in Rust really an OS written in a language other than C? It's not like they intend to replace all the existing C with Rust.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  Well, gotta start somewhere ;)
ksherlock 5y ago
PDP-7 Unix was the first Unix. It wasn't written in C.
- hu3 5y ago
  "In 1969, Ken Thompson wrote the first UNIX system in assembly language on a PDP-7..." [1] Half a century ago this living legend wrote an operating system. Can you imagine how much experience this single person holds today? It must be hard for him not to roll his eyes when talking to juniors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-7
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    Writing an operating system is not all that hard–thousands of undergraduates do so yearly. What's hard is coming up with UNIX and implementing it as something that others can use.
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      Those undergraduates do so with development tools that had hundreds of thousands of man-hours invested into them. We can't pretend like this doesn't make their job any easier.
    - hu3 5y ago
      Following a tutorial with thousands of Github repos to look at from the comfort of you favorite operating system isn't even remotely comparable to writing Unix in 1969.
      - anthk 5y ago
        Well, to be honest ITS and Multics were really usable.
anthk 5y ago
- Fuzix - PDP's Unixen - I am not sure, but, maybe, QNX
dwheeler 5y ago
> Would this make Linux the first *NIX-based OS that is written in a language other than C? At least, with high usage... It depends, but it's certainly not the first POSIX implementation in some high level language other than C. For example: * Real-Time Executive for Multiprocessor Systems (RTEMS) is a real-time operating system (RTOS) designed for embedded systems. While it's often compiled down to as slim-as-possible it does support POSIX, and it's written in Ada. It's been used in a lot of projects, but because it's really an RTOS, RTEMS is typically embedded within dedicated systems and not something you'd normally interact with directly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTEMS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTEMS * The BiiN system had an operating system written in Ada, and I think it implemented most of POSIX. However, the BiiN hardware never sold well, so it disappeared. I can't even find much about it on the web. * BeOS implemented a lot of POSIX, and it was mostly C++. Haiku re-implements much of BeOS and is also written mostly in C++.
- egberts1 5y ago
  first glance at the RTEMS git (and Wikipedia) repo shows that its OS is written in C language so far. Curious why you say it is written in Ada?
  - dwheeler 5y ago
    This page says RTEMS was written in "C and Ada" https://www.sigada.org/links.html https://www.sigada.org/links.html But I think that information must be old, the current info seems to just say C.

I think macOS has some C++ in the kernel, but I'm not sure. And Windows is heavily C++, if you're willing to count WSL1 as "*nix-based".

saagarjha 5y ago
The core kernel is pretty much all C, but extensions and drivers are C++, yes.

_joel 5y ago

I'm not sure but even in the short to mid term I can't see it replacing swathes of code already written in C. Drivers and such, maybe

_joel 5y ago
Quoted from the post > "Please note that the Rust support is intended to enable writing drivers and similar "leaf" modules in Rust, at least for the foreseeable future. In particular, we do not intend to rewrite the kernel core nor the major kernel subsystems (e.g. `kernel/`, `mm/`, `sched/`...). Instead, the Rust support is built on top of those."

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

If you don't qualify it with "high usage", redox is that. There's also a semantic question; is Linux with some drivers done in Rust really an OS written in a language other than C? It's not like they intend to replace all the existing C with Rust.

Ericson2314 5y ago
Well, gotta start somewhere ;)

ksherlock 5y ago

PDP-7 Unix was the first Unix. It wasn't written in C.

hu3 5y ago
"In 1969, Ken Thompson wrote the first UNIX system in assembly language on a PDP-7..." [1] Half a century ago this living legend wrote an operating system. Can you imagine how much experience this single person holds today? It must be hard for him not to roll his eyes when talking to juniors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-7
- saagarjha 5y ago
  Writing an operating system is not all that hard–thousands of undergraduates do so yearly. What's hard is coming up with UNIX and implementing it as something that others can use.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    Those undergraduates do so with development tools that had hundreds of thousands of man-hours invested into them. We can't pretend like this doesn't make their job any easier.
  - hu3 5y ago
    Following a tutorial with thousands of Github repos to look at from the comfort of you favorite operating system isn't even remotely comparable to writing Unix in 1969.
    - anthk 5y ago
      Well, to be honest ITS and Multics were really usable.

anthk 5y ago

- Fuzix - PDP's Unixen - I am not sure, but, maybe, QNX

dwheeler 5y ago

> Would this make Linux the first *NIX-based OS that is written in a language other than C? At least, with high usage... It depends, but it's certainly not the first POSIX implementation in some high level language other than C. For example: * Real-Time Executive for Multiprocessor Systems (RTEMS) is a real-time operating system (RTOS) designed for embedded systems. While it's often compiled down to as slim-as-possible it does support POSIX, and it's written in Ada. It's been used in a lot of projects, but because it's really an RTOS, RTEMS is typically embedded within dedicated systems and not something you'd normally interact with directly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTEMS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTEMS * The BiiN system had an operating system written in Ada, and I think it implemented most of POSIX. However, the BiiN hardware never sold well, so it disappeared. I can't even find much about it on the web. * BeOS implemented a lot of POSIX, and it was mostly C++. Haiku re-implements much of BeOS and is also written mostly in C++.

egberts1 5y ago
first glance at the RTEMS git (and Wikipedia) repo shows that its OS is written in C language so far. Curious why you say it is written in Ada?
- dwheeler 5y ago
  This page says RTEMS was written in "C and Ada" https://www.sigada.org/links.html https://www.sigada.org/links.html But I think that information must be old, the current info seems to just say C.