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it wouldn't even take a global internet shortage, just your country to go offline, how you gonna pay someone to get you out(keep you safe, etc) if you cant tran

it wouldn't even take a global internet shortage, just your country to go offline, how you gonna pay someone to get you out(keep you safe, etc) if you cant transfer your crypto to them? A few ounces of gold on the other hand will take you anywhere you want to go. Crypto is far from a safe hedge in any type of crazy event. you see, gold can still be traded without power and internet, as could cash or really anything physical, as the value is assigned by those trading it at that time for whatever use they have but BTC is totally useless, toilet paper would literally have more value. brass/lead(killing people) isn't the only way to survive.

Johnny555 6y ago
just your country to go offline, how you gonna pay someone to get you out(keep you safe, etc).... A few ounces of gold on the other hand will take you anywhere you want to go People keep using that argument about gold, but is it really realistic? If the SHTF and the USA goes dark for whatever reason, how good is gold really going to be? First, how does someone know you're really giving them pure gold and not some worthless alloy that looks and feels like gold? Second, how much is gold going to be worth? Will a gold bar buy you a house, or a loaf of bread? (probably not a good example, after a month or so, houses will probably be less valuable than food) And without any government to enforce a stable market, how will you even trade safely when the guy who has all the stuff you want can just hit you over the head and take your gold and whatever other possessions you may have with you? Eventually these things would be sorted out by forming some sort of communal groups for protection and resource gathering, and barter prices will eventually be set, but will the guy with the most gold be valuable, or the guy with real survival skills (or at least some more immediately usable possessions like weapons, farming tools, etc)? For the short term disruptions that are far more likely (like a regional power outage), cash is probably going to be just as good or better than gold because it's got an accepted value and everyone knows what it is (product values may rise, but in a society that's not used to using gold as currency with infrastructure to do so, it's a lot easier to sell a loaf of bread for $60 than for a gram of gold)
- mtnGoat 6y ago
  gold was just an example used, because the BTC fans like to compare the two. but you are right, gold isnt overly tradable either, since it has very little day to day use. my point was just that BTC would still be useless as it cant be traded without an internet, miners, etc.
  - gitrog 6y ago
    I don't particularly believe BTC is the messiah, but if the internet in your country goes down, how do you imagine you're going to get the money in your bank account? You might rush to an ATM before they get swarmed, but you're definitely not withdrawing all your money and transferring won't be an option.
rcurry 6y ago
Guns, ammo, and gold aren’t bad choices to hoard for an end of the world situation, but if you want to make out like a bandit when the shit hits the fan just stockpile spices - when people start having to eat squirrels they’re going to want some pepper :-)
- mtnGoat 6y ago
  good point! a working still would probably be useful as well.
- anonporridge 6y ago
  Also, drugs. The caffeine addicts will be desperate when the beans stop flowing.
betterunix2 6y ago
Right, because gold is really going to help when there are no police going around arresting thieves and murderers. I'm sure the guy who tells you he can get you out is not going to take your gold and do nothing to get you out, assuming he doesn't just kill you and take your gold, shoes, weapons, and whatever other supplies you are carrying. Get real. When governments collapse gold is not even remotely as useful as people seem to assume. There is no hedge against a failure of civilization. When things break down like that, you need to think on your feet and start organizing people (or joining up with a group someone else organized) to stand guard against the roving gangs of murderers, rapists, and thieves. "Trade" beyond the level of barter involving food, fuel, medicine, and weapons does not enter the picture until some new form of government can be established and some semblance of order is restored.
anonporridge 6y ago
It doesn't need to be usable through the crisis to still have value. Holding the private keys will still help preserve some of your wealth through to the other side so you don't have to start over with nothing. You can flee with some gold, but I'd expect that to all be taken from you by the border guards or smugglers you have to pay off to get out. They can't take your bitcoin if they don't know you have it.
- matmatmatmat 6y ago
  Genuinely curious if you think the Bitcoin network (or any other crypto network) would be restarted after such a crisis and if anyone holding non-crypto assets would be interested in trading them for crypto post-crisis?
  - jcpham2 6y ago
    Blockstream has satellites in orbit for this eventuality. [1] https://blockstream.com/satellite/ https://blockstream.com/satellite/

Johnny555 6y ago

just your country to go offline, how you gonna pay someone to get you out(keep you safe, etc).... A few ounces of gold on the other hand will take you anywhere you want to go People keep using that argument about gold, but is it really realistic? If the SHTF and the USA goes dark for whatever reason, how good is gold really going to be? First, how does someone know you're really giving them pure gold and not some worthless alloy that looks and feels like gold? Second, how much is gold going to be worth? Will a gold bar buy you a house, or a loaf of bread? (probably not a good example, after a month or so, houses will probably be less valuable than food) And without any government to enforce a stable market, how will you even trade safely when the guy who has all the stuff you want can just hit you over the head and take your gold and whatever other possessions you may have with you? Eventually these things would be sorted out by forming some sort of communal groups for protection and resource gathering, and barter prices will eventually be set, but will the guy with the most gold be valuable, or the guy with real survival skills (or at least some more immediately usable possessions like weapons, farming tools, etc)? For the short term disruptions that are far more likely (like a regional power outage), cash is probably going to be just as good or better than gold because it's got an accepted value and everyone knows what it is (product values may rise, but in a society that's not used to using gold as currency with infrastructure to do so, it's a lot easier to sell a loaf of bread for $60 than for a gram of gold)

mtnGoat 6y ago
gold was just an example used, because the BTC fans like to compare the two. but you are right, gold isnt overly tradable either, since it has very little day to day use. my point was just that BTC would still be useless as it cant be traded without an internet, miners, etc.
- gitrog 6y ago
  I don't particularly believe BTC is the messiah, but if the internet in your country goes down, how do you imagine you're going to get the money in your bank account? You might rush to an ATM before they get swarmed, but you're definitely not withdrawing all your money and transferring won't be an option.

rcurry 6y ago

Guns, ammo, and gold aren’t bad choices to hoard for an end of the world situation, but if you want to make out like a bandit when the shit hits the fan just stockpile spices - when people start having to eat squirrels they’re going to want some pepper :-)

mtnGoat 6y ago
good point! a working still would probably be useful as well.
anonporridge 6y ago
Also, drugs. The caffeine addicts will be desperate when the beans stop flowing.

betterunix2 6y ago

Right, because gold is really going to help when there are no police going around arresting thieves and murderers. I'm sure the guy who tells you he can get you out is not going to take your gold and do nothing to get you out, assuming he doesn't just kill you and take your gold, shoes, weapons, and whatever other supplies you are carrying. Get real. When governments collapse gold is not even remotely as useful as people seem to assume. There is no hedge against a failure of civilization. When things break down like that, you need to think on your feet and start organizing people (or joining up with a group someone else organized) to stand guard against the roving gangs of murderers, rapists, and thieves. "Trade" beyond the level of barter involving food, fuel, medicine, and weapons does not enter the picture until some new form of government can be established and some semblance of order is restored.

anonporridge 6y ago

It doesn't need to be usable through the crisis to still have value. Holding the private keys will still help preserve some of your wealth through to the other side so you don't have to start over with nothing. You can flee with some gold, but I'd expect that to all be taken from you by the border guards or smugglers you have to pay off to get out. They can't take your bitcoin if they don't know you have it.

matmatmatmat 6y ago
Genuinely curious if you think the Bitcoin network (or any other crypto network) would be restarted after such a crisis and if anyone holding non-crypto assets would be interested in trading them for crypto post-crisis?
- jcpham2 6y ago
  Blockstream has satellites in orbit for this eventuality. [1] https://blockstream.com/satellite/ https://blockstream.com/satellite/