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> You seem to be seeing something nefarious in their discontinuing the OP-1, and then re-continuing it at a higher price. This is typical behavior of a certain

> You seem to be seeing something nefarious in their discontinuing the OP-1, and then re-continuing it at a higher price. This is typical behavior of a certain large class of musicians, particularly electronic ones. The message boards are full of people complaining that these companies charge "too much." They will also then complain that Behringer sucks for "stealing" ideas and pricing them affordably. Meanwhile, it has never been cheaper to buy music equipment and software. And there are tons of high quality free software out there. I would hesitate to enter into the business of selling music software or hardware. It seems pretty thankless.

tinco 6y ago
If it were truly possible to create and sell the OP-1 or an equivalent device for under $1000, some company would have done it already. I'd gladly buy a Behringer copy of the OP-1 for $500, and I bet loads of other people would as well. It could even be twice the volume and be ugly AF. I don't know why it's so difficult or unattractive to put a sequencer, a sampler and a synthesizer in one box with a keyboard on it, but the OP-1 seems to be the only successful implementation of that idea.
SauciestGNU 6y ago
The Behringer thing is really confusing to me. I know there are other personal/ethical reasons to dislike them, but cloning out of patent devices is not one of them. That's what patents are for and why they're only valid for a defined period of time. It makes even less sense to criticize them when the originals they are cloning aren't even made anymore.
- capableweb 6y ago
  I don't think Behringer only creates clones of "out of patent" hardware but also current gear that is still being sold. I guess the latest example is the Behringer Swing that is obviously a clone of the Arturia Keystep.
  - brandonmenc 6y ago
    There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons in the same place. This is another weird aspect of the (often amateur, electronic) music production world - making something simple and obvious seem like a mysterious and unique breakthrough. This is a community that likes to use the terms “aleatoric” and “euclidian” instead of “random” and “evenly distributed”. Yes, I know the origins of those two terms but I don’t care - I eyeroll every time I hear them.
    - SauciestGNU 6y ago
      >There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. >This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons in the same place. In this case I think Behringer directly copied the look and feel of the keystep because of its amazing success in the low budget controller space. I don't expect much innovation in the budget controller space, but this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement if "rounded corners" can be protected.
      - brandonmenc 6y ago
        > this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement Then Arturia should be taking Behringer to court, right?
    - capableweb 6y ago
      > There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. You're joking right? There are thousands of combinations of where to put things to make a clone less obvious, but obviously they didn't care to do anything of that. Have you seen them compared side-by-side? It looks like a Mark 2 version of the Keystep, except some naming changed, here's an example: https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringer-swing-keystep-black.jpg https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringe...
      - 6y ago
unixhero 6y ago
To be fair, Behringer is priced right, great prices for low quality gear.

tinco 6y ago

If it were truly possible to create and sell the OP-1 or an equivalent device for under $1000, some company would have done it already. I'd gladly buy a Behringer copy of the OP-1 for $500, and I bet loads of other people would as well. It could even be twice the volume and be ugly AF. I don't know why it's so difficult or unattractive to put a sequencer, a sampler and a synthesizer in one box with a keyboard on it, but the OP-1 seems to be the only successful implementation of that idea.

SauciestGNU 6y ago

The Behringer thing is really confusing to me. I know there are other personal/ethical reasons to dislike them, but cloning out of patent devices is not one of them. That's what patents are for and why they're only valid for a defined period of time. It makes even less sense to criticize them when the originals they are cloning aren't even made anymore.

capableweb 6y ago
I don't think Behringer only creates clones of "out of patent" hardware but also current gear that is still being sold. I guess the latest example is the Behringer Swing that is obviously a clone of the Arturia Keystep.
- brandonmenc 6y ago
  There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons in the same place. This is another weird aspect of the (often amateur, electronic) music production world - making something simple and obvious seem like a mysterious and unique breakthrough. This is a community that likes to use the terms “aleatoric” and “euclidian” instead of “random” and “evenly distributed”. Yes, I know the origins of those two terms but I don’t care - I eyeroll every time I hear them.
  - SauciestGNU 6y ago
    >There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. >This is like two mobile phone companies putting their volume buttons in the same place. In this case I think Behringer directly copied the look and feel of the keystep because of its amazing success in the low budget controller space. I don't expect much innovation in the budget controller space, but this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement if "rounded corners" can be protected.
    - brandonmenc 6y ago
      > this one seems to be a clear case of trademark/copyright infringement Then Arturia should be taking Behringer to court, right?
  - capableweb 6y ago
    > There are only so many ways to arrange three knobs and transport controls on a keyboard. You're joking right? There are thousands of combinations of where to put things to make a clone less obvious, but obviously they didn't care to do anything of that. Have you seen them compared side-by-side? It looks like a Mark 2 version of the Keystep, except some naming changed, here's an example: https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringer-swing-keystep-black.jpg https://www.gearnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/behringe...
    - 6y ago

unixhero 6y ago

To be fair, Behringer is priced right, great prices for low quality gear.