6 ms·

> I still have many English words I know (and use correctly in writing) that I'm not sure how to pronounce. Do you mind sharing some examples? As a native Eng

> I still have many English words I know (and use correctly in writing) that I'm not sure how to pronounce. Do you mind sharing some examples? As a native English speaker, I'm so curious! Do you think that if you heard them without seeing the word you'd realize what the written form was? Or might there be words where you know the written form and the spoken form and don't realize it's the same word?

dmitriid 6y ago
For me it was "awry" and "lichen". I didn't even recognize "lichen" when I first heard it spoken (on an episode of QI). There are quite a few others that tripped me up over the years like "cleanliness". In general, "Chaos" aka "Dearest creature in creation" shows this problem (I would still struggle to read it even if I know every word there): https://pages.hep.wisc.edu/~jnb/charivarius.html https://pages.hep.wisc.edu/~jnb/charivarius.html
- etbebl 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm a native speaker and I still pronounce "awry" as "AH-ree" in my head sometimes. I think I saw it in print a lot before I heard it.
jadinvt 6y ago
epitome. I knew what the word meant written and spoken, but didn't realize it was the same word until well into adulthood.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  This reminded me of "catastrophe". I'm still unsure :)
ajuc 6y ago
"Vocabulary" is one. I just checked it and I almost guessed right. I thought the u was more of an oo and the second a was ah not eh. Parallel - for some reason the second a is eh not ah. Can't remember that, have to check it every time. I play a lot of D&D over the internet in English and even as common word as "sword" is for some reason hard to remember. Every time I have to guess if the "w" is pronounced or not. been == bin ? - the rules for that are just evil > Do you think that if you heard them without seeing the word you'd realize what the written form was? Sure, from the context if not instantly. I listen to a lot of English media with different accents (I watched the whole Big Bang and IT Crowd and I listen to Critical Role when I'm commuting). > might there be words where you know the written form and the spoken form and don't realize it's the same word? Leicester and queue. But these are famous enough that I remember them now. I obviously won't be able to give you examples that I still haven't realized ;)
- jcranmer 6y ago
  > the second a was ah not eh > for some reason the second a is eh not ah > been == bin ? - the rules for that are just evil Actually, the rules are rather simple. They all have to do with unstressed syllables in English: unstressed vowels are reduced to /ə/ or /ɪ/ (the latter is what comes to play in your been -> bin use). Stress rules in English are not simple compared to other languages, and I can definitely see where non-native speakers might get confused. One downside of the schwa reduction rules is that it can trip you up when you realize that you need to spell a word with a reduced vowel and you're not sure how it's actually written, because every vowel can be reduced to /ə/.
Scarblac 6y ago
I once lost a bet because I couldn't believe "finite" and "infinite" sounded so different. But the best examples are in the poem _The Chaos_ (http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html). Through, though, throw, tough... I know a trough exists but I have no idea how it's pronounced.
- schoen 6y ago
  Dr. Seuss has a lesser-known book called The Tough Coughs as He Ploughs the Dough (based on the observation that none of these -ough words rhyme -- the /tʌf/ /kɔfs/ as he /plaʊz/ the /doʊ/). (And yes, that's not even all of the sounds that are spelled by -ough, like /-u/ in "through".) Trough is /tɹɔf/ and rhymes with "cough".
- Koshkin 6y ago
  Or, “Steve was a fungi”.
AareyBaba 6y ago
Some examples from I Love Lucy : https://youtu.be/uZV40f0cXF4?t=9 https://youtu.be/uZV40f0cXF4?t=9

dmitriid 6y ago

For me it was "awry" and "lichen". I didn't even recognize "lichen" when I first heard it spoken (on an episode of QI). There are quite a few others that tripped me up over the years like "cleanliness". In general, "Chaos" aka "Dearest creature in creation" shows this problem (I would still struggle to read it even if I know every word there): https://pages.hep.wisc.edu/~jnb/charivarius.html https://pages.hep.wisc.edu/~jnb/charivarius.html

etbebl 6y ago
Yeah, I'm a native speaker and I still pronounce "awry" as "AH-ree" in my head sometimes. I think I saw it in print a lot before I heard it.

jadinvt 6y ago

epitome. I knew what the word meant written and spoken, but didn't realize it was the same word until well into adulthood.

dmitriid 6y ago
This reminded me of "catastrophe". I'm still unsure :)

ajuc 6y ago

"Vocabulary" is one. I just checked it and I almost guessed right. I thought the u was more of an oo and the second a was ah not eh. Parallel - for some reason the second a is eh not ah. Can't remember that, have to check it every time. I play a lot of D&D over the internet in English and even as common word as "sword" is for some reason hard to remember. Every time I have to guess if the "w" is pronounced or not. been == bin ? - the rules for that are just evil > Do you think that if you heard them without seeing the word you'd realize what the written form was? Sure, from the context if not instantly. I listen to a lot of English media with different accents (I watched the whole Big Bang and IT Crowd and I listen to Critical Role when I'm commuting). > might there be words where you know the written form and the spoken form and don't realize it's the same word? Leicester and queue. But these are famous enough that I remember them now. I obviously won't be able to give you examples that I still haven't realized ;)

jcranmer 6y ago
> the second a was ah not eh > for some reason the second a is eh not ah > been == bin ? - the rules for that are just evil Actually, the rules are rather simple. They all have to do with unstressed syllables in English: unstressed vowels are reduced to /ə/ or /ɪ/ (the latter is what comes to play in your been -> bin use). Stress rules in English are not simple compared to other languages, and I can definitely see where non-native speakers might get confused. One downside of the schwa reduction rules is that it can trip you up when you realize that you need to spell a word with a reduced vowel and you're not sure how it's actually written, because every vowel can be reduced to /ə/.

Scarblac 6y ago

I once lost a bet because I couldn't believe "finite" and "infinite" sounded so different. But the best examples are in the poem _The Chaos_ (http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html). Through, though, throw, tough... I know a trough exists but I have no idea how it's pronounced.

schoen 6y ago
Dr. Seuss has a lesser-known book called The Tough Coughs as He Ploughs the Dough (based on the observation that none of these -ough words rhyme -- the /tʌf/ /kɔfs/ as he /plaʊz/ the /doʊ/). (And yes, that's not even all of the sounds that are spelled by -ough, like /-u/ in "through".) Trough is /tɹɔf/ and rhymes with "cough".
Koshkin 6y ago
Or, “Steve was a fungi”.

AareyBaba 6y ago

Some examples from I Love Lucy : https://youtu.be/uZV40f0cXF4?t=9 https://youtu.be/uZV40f0cXF4?t=9