4 ms·

I reject the thinking that "people are going to do what they want" and we are helpless to influence their behavior so we should just accept whatever they are do

by umvi 6y ago

I reject the thinking that "people are going to do what they want" and we are helpless to influence their behavior so we should just accept whatever they are doing no questions asked and work around it with public policy if it causes a problem. The reason I reject it is because I would argue "what people want to do" does not spontaneously arise in their minds, but rather is influenced by popular culture, marketing, and more. Take alcohol for example. You might say "you can't prevent people from drinking, look at Prohibition, it was a complete failure, don't even try", and in a certain sense you are right. You can't prevent all people from drinking. However, you can prevent many people from drinking (or at least, reduce the total amount of drinking to more moderate levels) by: - Not glorifying alcohol via pop culture and movies (especially American binge drinking at age 21) - Restrict/regulate alcohol advertisements and marketing to reduce the influence of "drinking = happiness" messaging - etc. Or, stated in other terms, you can exacerbate your country's alcohol-related issues by glorifying alcohol and enshrining it in popular culture. In the same vein, maybe we wouldn't have as big of a problem if we didn't glorify casual sex encounters so much in our media. If popular media/culture instead glorified things like self-restraint, commitment, etc, I'm sure some % of people would be influenced.

emodendroket 6y ago
So what do you actually want to do? Create a board of censors? Bring back the Hayes Code?
fao_ 6y ago
> I reject the thinking that "people are going to do what they want" and we are helpless to influence their behavior so we should just accept whatever they are doing no questions asked and work around it with public policy if it causes a problem. The reason I reject it is because I would argue what people want to do does not spontaneously arise in their minds, but rather is influenced by popular culture, marketing, and more. Hmm, let's see how well that worked with sexually active teenagers in the bible belt, shall we? https://www.healthline.com/health-news/abstinence-programs-ineffectual-and-stigmatizing-study-finds https://www.healthline.com/health-news/abstinence-programs-i... https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/545289168/abstinence-education-is-ineffective-and-unethical-report-argues?t=1618416915152 https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/5452891... https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/abstinence-only-education-failure https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news...
- gnull 6y ago
  If one of the attempts did not work, it doesn't mean that none of them will.
- vict7 6y ago
  Excellent point! Seems like some are more interested in pushing their own beliefs and morality on others rather than examining the evidence of what makes effective (or ineffective) public policy.
- rayiner 6y ago
  That just proves that Sunday school can’t do much in the face of a culture that overwhelmingly normalizes casual sex in TV, movies, music, etc. That doesn’t mean that societies committed to the opposite don’t exist. And many do—such as much of Asia. We can argue about the merits of say Bangladeshi society (where I’m from) but we have almost completely escaped the global AIDs epidemic.
  - fao_ 6y ago
    Bangladeshi society focused more on education and healthcare initiatives, not propaganda -- at least according to wiki
bryanrasmussen 6y ago
>However, you can prevent many people from drinking (or at least, reduce the total amount of drinking to more moderate levels) by: actually doing something effective like taxing the purchase of alcohol to such a level that people don't do as much of it unless they are alcoholics. So all we have to do is tax when people purchase their genitalia for the weekend.
morbia 6y ago
Gay man here, on prep in a long term open relationship. To date I have yet to come across anything in mainstream media that comes close to 'glorifying' the type of relationship I have with my partner, or non-monogamy in general. Can you give any examples of this? I'd also argue I'm in a committed relationship, but I'm not going argue semantics.
- umvi 6y ago
  Yeah, I would argue "long term relationship" is a sign of commitment. I'm more talking about shows and movies that make it seem like non-committal hookups and switching sexual partners rapidly for any reason is cool and totally normal: - How I Met Your Mother (Barney) - The Office (everyone has slept with everyone by the end) - Game of Thrones You could argue the "good" characters like Tyrion typically showed more commitment in their sexual activities than "bad" characters like Theon who just knocked up random women for fun. But even then you have instances where the "heroes" like Arya have one night stands with no consequences (because HBO wanted to be edgy). - Friends
  - emodendroket 6y ago
    Have you considered the possibility that this might have more to do with the fact that serial monogamy is already widespread (and has been since before it was commonly depicted on television) and the shows have a relatively limited cast of characters? Even if not, are we asking the government to step in and ban Friends? Because if not, I don’t see how this observation gives us anything approaching a solution.
    - umvi 6y ago
      > Even if not, are we asking the government to step in and ban Friends? Because if not, I don’t see how this observation gives us anything approaching a solution. Absolutely not. Government should not have to solve every problem in society. The solution is for us (consumers) to not watch shows that promote values we don't agree with. And if you do agree with them... you reap what you sow.

by umvi 6y ago

emodendroket 6y ago

So what do you actually want to do? Create a board of censors? Bring back the Hayes Code?

fao_ 6y ago

> I reject the thinking that "people are going to do what they want" and we are helpless to influence their behavior so we should just accept whatever they are doing no questions asked and work around it with public policy if it causes a problem. The reason I reject it is because I would argue what people want to do does not spontaneously arise in their minds, but rather is influenced by popular culture, marketing, and more. Hmm, let's see how well that worked with sexually active teenagers in the bible belt, shall we? https://www.healthline.com/health-news/abstinence-programs-ineffectual-and-stigmatizing-study-finds https://www.healthline.com/health-news/abstinence-programs-i... https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/545289168/abstinence-education-is-ineffective-and-unethical-report-argues?t=1618416915152 https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/5452891... https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/abstinence-only-education-failure https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news...

gnull 6y ago
If one of the attempts did not work, it doesn't mean that none of them will.
vict7 6y ago
Excellent point! Seems like some are more interested in pushing their own beliefs and morality on others rather than examining the evidence of what makes effective (or ineffective) public policy.
rayiner 6y ago
That just proves that Sunday school can’t do much in the face of a culture that overwhelmingly normalizes casual sex in TV, movies, music, etc. That doesn’t mean that societies committed to the opposite don’t exist. And many do—such as much of Asia. We can argue about the merits of say Bangladeshi society (where I’m from) but we have almost completely escaped the global AIDs epidemic.
- fao_ 6y ago
  Bangladeshi society focused more on education and healthcare initiatives, not propaganda -- at least according to wiki

bryanrasmussen 6y ago

>However, you can prevent many people from drinking (or at least, reduce the total amount of drinking to more moderate levels) by: actually doing something effective like taxing the purchase of alcohol to such a level that people don't do as much of it unless they are alcoholics. So all we have to do is tax when people purchase their genitalia for the weekend.

morbia 6y ago

Gay man here, on prep in a long term open relationship. To date I have yet to come across anything in mainstream media that comes close to 'glorifying' the type of relationship I have with my partner, or non-monogamy in general. Can you give any examples of this? I'd also argue I'm in a committed relationship, but I'm not going argue semantics.

umvi 6y ago
Yeah, I would argue "long term relationship" is a sign of commitment. I'm more talking about shows and movies that make it seem like non-committal hookups and switching sexual partners rapidly for any reason is cool and totally normal: - How I Met Your Mother (Barney) - The Office (everyone has slept with everyone by the end) - Game of Thrones You could argue the "good" characters like Tyrion typically showed more commitment in their sexual activities than "bad" characters like Theon who just knocked up random women for fun. But even then you have instances where the "heroes" like Arya have one night stands with no consequences (because HBO wanted to be edgy). - Friends
- emodendroket 6y ago
  Have you considered the possibility that this might have more to do with the fact that serial monogamy is already widespread (and has been since before it was commonly depicted on television) and the shows have a relatively limited cast of characters? Even if not, are we asking the government to step in and ban Friends? Because if not, I don’t see how this observation gives us anything approaching a solution.
  - umvi 6y ago
    > Even if not, are we asking the government to step in and ban Friends? Because if not, I don’t see how this observation gives us anything approaching a solution. Absolutely not. Government should not have to solve every problem in society. The solution is for us (consumers) to not watch shows that promote values we don't agree with. And if you do agree with them... you reap what you sow.