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I still prefer Binance who are exposed to users via actual crypto (BNB) than Coinbase who are trying to eat the trad investors exposure and banking on their pre

by Tenoke 6y ago

I still prefer Binance who are exposed to users via actual crypto (BNB) than Coinbase who are trying to eat the trad investors exposure and banking on their preferential treatment from US regulators. Not to mention that Binance has 9x the volume, much much more crypto and is pro-competition and lists Coin on day 1 while CB wouldn't even consider listing BNB or anything by competitors.

arcticbull 6y ago
Well, Binance is, somehow, dramatically more of a fly-by-night bucket shop intentionally looking the other way to people opening multiple accounts to avoid KYC -- and they won't event tell you in which country they're domiciled. They're one of Team Tether's top partners in crime. How on earth can you believe their volume numbers haha.
- Tenoke 6y ago
  >intentionally looking the other way to people opening multiple accounts to avoid KYC That's blatantly false. Many have been caught trying to circumvent via VPN or similar, it's just impossible to catch quite everyone no matter how hard you try. >which country they're domiciled. Malta?
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    They won't tell you where their headquarters are "because Bitcoin doesn't have one": https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-because-bitcoin-doesnt-says-ceo https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-... In fact "Malta ... question mark?" is about as much information as we have. And the KYC evade is just based on opening more accounts before you reach their threshold. Because rather than operating like a real business, requiring everyone to provide KYC during onboarding, they just look the other way.
    - Tenoke 6y ago
      They do require KYC for any fiat deposits or withdraws and not requiring them for small amounts of crypro-only trading is not unusual nor illegal.
      - spurdoman77 6y ago
        That is quite literally illegal nowadays in many jurisdictions.
  - spurdoman77 6y ago
    https://coingeek.com/binance-not-licensed-to-operate-in-malta-regulators-say/ https://coingeek.com/binance-not-licensed-to-operate-in-malt... Binance has never been in Malta, in fact they are not located anywhere. I would be very cautious in dealing with them because to me that kind of approach to regulation doesnt sound healthy.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      > For example, the company’s chief growth officer, Ted Lin, told Decrypt just a few days ago, “We have offices in Malta for customer services, and some compliance people there, but it’s not the headquarters per say [sic]. It’s the spiritual headquarters. It’s a name that people think about when they think about Binance.” Oh my god lol.
    - ketamine__ 6y ago
      It's on the Binance wikipedia page.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        Wikipedia cites a Malta Today article from 2019. > [Binance established their headquarters in Malta] soon after the Maltese government passed laws that provided a regulatory framework for businesses operating in the Cryptocurrency and Blockchain industry. The regulation officially passed into a law on July 4th 2018. Malta remains the only country in the world to officially pass such laws. The Coindesk article from 2020 states: > Until February [of 2020], Binance was considered to be based in Malta. That changed when the island European nation announced that, no, Binance is not under its jurisdiction. Since then Binance has not said just where, exactly, it is now headquartered. And quotes CZ: > “Well, I think what this is is the beauty of the blockchain, right, so you don’t have to … like where’s the Bitcoin office, because Bitcoin doesn’t have an office.” [1] The Wikipedia article is stale, and incorrect on the basis of the subsequent statements from executives involved. The beauty of blockchain indeed. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-because-bitcoin-doesnt-says-ceo https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-...
- csomar 6y ago
  > How on earth can you believe their volume numbers haha. They might be inflating their numbers but they are definitively huge. Everyone I know who is involved in Crypto is using them.
  - Tenoke 6y ago
    I doubt they are inflating them and it's trivial to check by going on both CB and Binance, looking at the order books and executing a few orders against them.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      Right, you know in a completely unregulated market, you can just put fake things on the books yeah? Remember that ETF that was trying to list a few years ago said 95% of all volume in the crypto space was fake. [1] Now, at the time, they included Binance as a legitimate exchange but you know nobody's looking and they can do literally whatever they want. That designation is especially suspect as: > Of the 10 exchanges, only Binance isn’t a money services business (MSB) Consider of course this was 2 years ago. This whole space is utterly uninvestable. So let me reverse the question -- on what basis do you believe these unregulated fly by night bucket shops are on the up and up? What have they done to prove their legitimacy to you? [1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitwise-calls-out-to-sec-95-of-bitcoin-trade-volume-is-fake-real-market-is-or https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitwise-calls-out-to-sec-95-o...
      - ChainOfFools 6y ago
        correct. the part that seems to evade people's mental model of this process is that the exchanges know which orders in the book are theirs, but the customers do not, so there's no risk whatsoever of the exchange filling an order that works against their balance sheet. it all looks perfectly organic from the outside.
      - Tenoke 6y ago
        I mean, how can what's on the book be be fake if my trades are executed faster, the spread is smaller and I can take advantage of the higher liquidity?? Those things aren't just arbitrary numbers with no effect, if you are trading it's pretty noticable where the volume is higher even if you don't look at the order book.
- literallycancer 6y ago
  That's a feature. Willingness to avoid onerous regulation or even break the law to benefit users is a good thing.
  - baq 6y ago
    that's assuming non-users aren't getting hurt.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Yeah, it's not lol, it screws over legitimate participants to benefit the house.
- pelorat 6y ago
  Binance is used everywhere, whilst CB is mostly used by Americans.
asdev 6y ago
CB abides by regulators and doesn't list every crappy project that comes along. They're trying to bring legitimacy to crypto. Binance is the wild wild west still and BNB is a centralized useless ETH sidechain.
- Tenoke 6y ago
  >BNB is a centralized useless ETH sidechain. I dont agree and what you are incorrectly talking about is probably BSC, not BNB.
- exdsq 6y ago
  Agree. I was involved in integrating Rosetta with a blockchain and it was great to see their push for standardised interfaces and requirements to get listed with them.
- sneak 6y ago
  The definition of legitimacy in cryptocurrencies is "can you send or receive this on the blockchain?" Arbitrary gatekeeping in an attempt to avoid the regulatory banhammer is somewhat of a lame kludge, in my view. There is a ton of value available on chains and in tokens that regulators don't like.
- nuclx 6y ago
  They're listing a scam that is XRP though.
  - thepasswordis 6y ago
    Coinbase delisted them.
  - colesantiago 6y ago
    why is XRP a scam?
    - vmception 6y ago
      the reasons that XRP is considered a scam involves an ambiguous new standard that would require all securities and everything in the equities market to also be called scam. Things like there being a centralized issuer (like all assets except for physical commodities), things like all of the asset being created in advance which is called a premine (like all assets before crypto, except newly authorized shares which are then sold) as XRP aspires not to be within the securities framework, there is still a desire of the market for more forthcoming disclosure and many people (including myself) don't like prior - but extremely successful - marketing of XRP/Ripple that didn't separate Ripple Inc activities from XRP use but in the crypto space, scam is not defined at all and has complete dilution of any meaning. it is typically rooted in ignoring market sectors, in favor of a general all encompassing single cryptocurrency attracting all capital in the world at all times in perpetuity, so any crypto asset that dilutes some of that capital is called a scam because it slows down the desired world view. obviously people outside of the crypto space consider all of that to be an absurdity. the "middle" view is that there are assets that share a technology feature set that are simply bearable by the market, like any commodity or equity they can attract trillions of value even while a different technology matures that better matches an ideology of elitist enthusiasts.
seriousquestion 6y ago
Binance is a total mess compared to Coinbase in terms of usability.

by Tenoke 6y ago

arcticbull 6y ago

Well, Binance is, somehow, dramatically more of a fly-by-night bucket shop intentionally looking the other way to people opening multiple accounts to avoid KYC -- and they won't event tell you in which country they're domiciled. They're one of Team Tether's top partners in crime. How on earth can you believe their volume numbers haha.

Tenoke 6y ago
>intentionally looking the other way to people opening multiple accounts to avoid KYC That's blatantly false. Many have been caught trying to circumvent via VPN or similar, it's just impossible to catch quite everyone no matter how hard you try. >which country they're domiciled. Malta?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  They won't tell you where their headquarters are "because Bitcoin doesn't have one": https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-because-bitcoin-doesnt-says-ceo https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-... In fact "Malta ... question mark?" is about as much information as we have. And the KYC evade is just based on opening more accounts before you reach their threshold. Because rather than operating like a real business, requiring everyone to provide KYC during onboarding, they just look the other way.
  - Tenoke 6y ago
    They do require KYC for any fiat deposits or withdraws and not requiring them for small amounts of crypro-only trading is not unusual nor illegal.
    - spurdoman77 6y ago
      That is quite literally illegal nowadays in many jurisdictions.
- spurdoman77 6y ago
  https://coingeek.com/binance-not-licensed-to-operate-in-malta-regulators-say/ https://coingeek.com/binance-not-licensed-to-operate-in-malt... Binance has never been in Malta, in fact they are not located anywhere. I would be very cautious in dealing with them because to me that kind of approach to regulation doesnt sound healthy.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    > For example, the company’s chief growth officer, Ted Lin, told Decrypt just a few days ago, “We have offices in Malta for customer services, and some compliance people there, but it’s not the headquarters per say [sic]. It’s the spiritual headquarters. It’s a name that people think about when they think about Binance.” Oh my god lol.
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    It's on the Binance wikipedia page.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      Wikipedia cites a Malta Today article from 2019. > [Binance established their headquarters in Malta] soon after the Maltese government passed laws that provided a regulatory framework for businesses operating in the Cryptocurrency and Blockchain industry. The regulation officially passed into a law on July 4th 2018. Malta remains the only country in the world to officially pass such laws. The Coindesk article from 2020 states: > Until February [of 2020], Binance was considered to be based in Malta. That changed when the island European nation announced that, no, Binance is not under its jurisdiction. Since then Binance has not said just where, exactly, it is now headquartered. And quotes CZ: > “Well, I think what this is is the beauty of the blockchain, right, so you don’t have to … like where’s the Bitcoin office, because Bitcoin doesn’t have an office.” [1] The Wikipedia article is stale, and incorrect on the basis of the subsequent statements from executives involved. The beauty of blockchain indeed. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-because-bitcoin-doesnt-says-ceo https://www.coindesk.com/binance-doesnt-have-a-headquarters-...
csomar 6y ago
> How on earth can you believe their volume numbers haha. They might be inflating their numbers but they are definitively huge. Everyone I know who is involved in Crypto is using them.
- Tenoke 6y ago
  I doubt they are inflating them and it's trivial to check by going on both CB and Binance, looking at the order books and executing a few orders against them.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Right, you know in a completely unregulated market, you can just put fake things on the books yeah? Remember that ETF that was trying to list a few years ago said 95% of all volume in the crypto space was fake. [1] Now, at the time, they included Binance as a legitimate exchange but you know nobody's looking and they can do literally whatever they want. That designation is especially suspect as: > Of the 10 exchanges, only Binance isn’t a money services business (MSB) Consider of course this was 2 years ago. This whole space is utterly uninvestable. So let me reverse the question -- on what basis do you believe these unregulated fly by night bucket shops are on the up and up? What have they done to prove their legitimacy to you? [1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitwise-calls-out-to-sec-95-of-bitcoin-trade-volume-is-fake-real-market-is-or https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitwise-calls-out-to-sec-95-o...
    - ChainOfFools 6y ago
      correct. the part that seems to evade people's mental model of this process is that the exchanges know which orders in the book are theirs, but the customers do not, so there's no risk whatsoever of the exchange filling an order that works against their balance sheet. it all looks perfectly organic from the outside.
    - Tenoke 6y ago
      I mean, how can what's on the book be be fake if my trades are executed faster, the spread is smaller and I can take advantage of the higher liquidity?? Those things aren't just arbitrary numbers with no effect, if you are trading it's pretty noticable where the volume is higher even if you don't look at the order book.
literallycancer 6y ago
That's a feature. Willingness to avoid onerous regulation or even break the law to benefit users is a good thing.
- baq 6y ago
  that's assuming non-users aren't getting hurt.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Yeah, it's not lol, it screws over legitimate participants to benefit the house.
pelorat 6y ago
Binance is used everywhere, whilst CB is mostly used by Americans.

asdev 6y ago

CB abides by regulators and doesn't list every crappy project that comes along. They're trying to bring legitimacy to crypto. Binance is the wild wild west still and BNB is a centralized useless ETH sidechain.

Tenoke 6y ago
>BNB is a centralized useless ETH sidechain. I dont agree and what you are incorrectly talking about is probably BSC, not BNB.
exdsq 6y ago
Agree. I was involved in integrating Rosetta with a blockchain and it was great to see their push for standardised interfaces and requirements to get listed with them.
sneak 6y ago
The definition of legitimacy in cryptocurrencies is "can you send or receive this on the blockchain?" Arbitrary gatekeeping in an attempt to avoid the regulatory banhammer is somewhat of a lame kludge, in my view. There is a ton of value available on chains and in tokens that regulators don't like.
nuclx 6y ago
They're listing a scam that is XRP though.
- thepasswordis 6y ago
  Coinbase delisted them.
- colesantiago 6y ago
  why is XRP a scam?
  - vmception 6y ago
    the reasons that XRP is considered a scam involves an ambiguous new standard that would require all securities and everything in the equities market to also be called scam. Things like there being a centralized issuer (like all assets except for physical commodities), things like all of the asset being created in advance which is called a premine (like all assets before crypto, except newly authorized shares which are then sold) as XRP aspires not to be within the securities framework, there is still a desire of the market for more forthcoming disclosure and many people (including myself) don't like prior - but extremely successful - marketing of XRP/Ripple that didn't separate Ripple Inc activities from XRP use but in the crypto space, scam is not defined at all and has complete dilution of any meaning. it is typically rooted in ignoring market sectors, in favor of a general all encompassing single cryptocurrency attracting all capital in the world at all times in perpetuity, so any crypto asset that dilutes some of that capital is called a scam because it slows down the desired world view. obviously people outside of the crypto space consider all of that to be an absurdity. the "middle" view is that there are assets that share a technology feature set that are simply bearable by the market, like any commodity or equity they can attract trillions of value even while a different technology matures that better matches an ideology of elitist enthusiasts.

seriousquestion 6y ago

Binance is a total mess compared to Coinbase in terms of usability.