5 ms·

that just burns all the regular people working regular jobs at that org.

hobs 6y ago
So fix the social safety net, too big to fail is not something we want to have, especially when it comes to actively harmful companies...
- i_haz_rabies 6y ago
  Jailing the people responsible seems like a way better option than putting potentially tens of thousands of people on welfare.
  - hobs 6y ago
    Managing the long term cost of reforming entire organizations is probably not worth it, better to destroy it AND jail the leaders.
  - a3camero 6y ago
    Who not both? Just because it’s normal that low level workers are fired and get nothing doesn’t mean that’s how it has to be. Severance could be generous enough to make this work out.
  - ericd 6y ago
    Part of the punishment could be that the company still has to pay all salaries and hourly wages while it’s shut down.
    - throwawayboise 6y ago
      With what earnings would they do this?
      - ericd 6y ago
        Their cash balance, debt, or equity raise. Or they go bankrupt. That would be part of the risk of doing something that got your company this punishment. To be clear, I’m not advocating these shutdowns as a good idea, there are a lot of implications that I haven’t thought through.
        bboylen 6y ago
        Who is going to invest cash into a business that has to stop operating for N months, while maintaining everyone on payroll?
        gambiting 6y ago
        Why would anyone invest anything in this scenario? Most companies in the world operate without any investment whatsoever.
        bboylen 6y ago
        As we saw with the covid market crash, a lot of companies (like airlines) don't keep a lot of cash on hand. If they had 0 revenue for several months but still had operating costs, I am assuming they would need a loan
        ericd 6y ago
        Perhaps one of the many professionals working in distressed debt or special situations? If you're not familiar, there are desks at Goldman, etc called "Special Situations" that focus on relatively niche investment opportunities. Investors just need the price to be right. Would likely be bad for the shareholders, but again, that's part of the punishment.
        bboylen 6y ago
        There could be a price that worked but I don't think there are many businesses that can go offline for several months and come back fine. I'm most familiar with the industry I work in, (O&G), where a day not operating is an incredible loss. Is shutting down the oil refineries and petrochemical complexes what is best for the country? I just struggle to see how this wouldn't just punish normal workers and furthermore just make the economy worse off as a whole

hobs 6y ago

So fix the social safety net, too big to fail is not something we want to have, especially when it comes to actively harmful companies...

i_haz_rabies 6y ago
Jailing the people responsible seems like a way better option than putting potentially tens of thousands of people on welfare.
- hobs 6y ago
  Managing the long term cost of reforming entire organizations is probably not worth it, better to destroy it AND jail the leaders.
- a3camero 6y ago
  Who not both? Just because it’s normal that low level workers are fired and get nothing doesn’t mean that’s how it has to be. Severance could be generous enough to make this work out.
- ericd 6y ago
  Part of the punishment could be that the company still has to pay all salaries and hourly wages while it’s shut down.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    With what earnings would they do this?
    - ericd 6y ago
      Their cash balance, debt, or equity raise. Or they go bankrupt. That would be part of the risk of doing something that got your company this punishment. To be clear, I’m not advocating these shutdowns as a good idea, there are a lot of implications that I haven’t thought through.
      - bboylen 6y ago
        Who is going to invest cash into a business that has to stop operating for N months, while maintaining everyone on payroll?
        gambiting 6y ago
        Why would anyone invest anything in this scenario? Most companies in the world operate without any investment whatsoever.
        bboylen 6y ago
        As we saw with the covid market crash, a lot of companies (like airlines) don't keep a lot of cash on hand. If they had 0 revenue for several months but still had operating costs, I am assuming they would need a loan
        ericd 6y ago
        Perhaps one of the many professionals working in distressed debt or special situations? If you're not familiar, there are desks at Goldman, etc called "Special Situations" that focus on relatively niche investment opportunities. Investors just need the price to be right. Would likely be bad for the shareholders, but again, that's part of the punishment.
        bboylen 6y ago
        There could be a price that worked but I don't think there are many businesses that can go offline for several months and come back fine. I'm most familiar with the industry I work in, (O&G), where a day not operating is an incredible loss. Is shutting down the oil refineries and petrochemical complexes what is best for the country? I just struggle to see how this wouldn't just punish normal workers and furthermore just make the economy worse off as a whole