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The criminal justice system already does this extensively. Often people are sentenced to community service. So I guess your question is really should this be e
by cletus 6y ago
The criminal justice system already does this extensively. Often people are sentenced to community service.
So I guess your question is really should this be extended to more low-level offenses like minor traffic violations?
It's an interesting question. In Switzerland, for example, speeding above a certain level ceases to be a fixed fine and is instead a percentage of your income. I'm a fan of that. Fixed fines tend to discriminate against the poor disproportionately.
I can imagine there are many people who would be better off and would prefer 2-4 hours of community service over a $100 fine. So that should certainly be an option instead of paying the fine.
Yeah I think the idea probably does have merit.
- nemacol 6y agoI like the % of income idea.
- mc32 6y agoWhat do you do with crimes committed by people who have little in earnings (students, unemployed, etc.) or folks who earn “$1” in income but obviously are otherwise wealthy?
- whatshisface 6y agoIt would be based on the income of all of the money attached to you, including interest/dividends/appreciation within trusts with you as the grantee. Since wealth makes more money in virtually every way it can be stored, and since not investing it results in the "inflation tax," inflation + income tax = wealth tax.
- nemacol 6y agoInteresting question. I imagine someone has already thought of this from a tax point of view. Maybe some % of their net worth divided by their age (working age?) - say if they have 100 million dollars and are 60. 60-18 = 42. We would fine X% of 2,380,952.38? The idea being an attempt to come up with what their yearly salary could have been based on current value. I am sure there are some excellent flaws with that approach as well. Fun to ponder.
- dec0dedab0de 6y agoI hope the government doesn't keep track of everyones net worth, it's bad enough they know everyone's income.
- distances 6y agoIn Finland where all larger fines are day-fines the minimum day-fine is 6€. Calculation is based in your total income (including capital income). Most rich people would be affected due to capital income.
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoI like it simply because screwing the rich and middle as hard as the poors on trivial issues is gonna make it real clear real quick how excessive penalties for common civil offenses are and pretty soon thereafter the laws will change. HN has this fantasy of $10k speeding tickets. In reality it's gonna look like 100mph speed limits, $100 fines for you and $10 fines for your nanny.
- telesilla 6y agoDon't excessive speeding tickets lead to a loss of license? This is the perfect response. Perhaps a more sophisticated society will one day know our fears and punish us accordingly (cue film script).
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago>Don't excessive speeding tickets lead to a loss of license? Usually. >Perhaps a more sophisticated society will one day know our fears and punish us accordingly (cue film script). That was a plot line in 1984 and IMO flies in the face of equality under law.
- Spooky23 6y agoFor a normal person, yes. If you have money to light on fire you can hire attorneys to delay, appeal, etc. Eventually, it will catch up.
- elil17 6y agoOther countries have $10k speeding tickets for the rich who ignore traffic rules. It’s not such a fantasy, it’s a real world way to reduce emissions and automobile deaths.
- monocasa 6y agoEven $100k tickets. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland...
- galfarragem 6y agoNit pick: so income zero means no fines?
- klyrs 6y agoYet another argument for UBI, I guess?
- yostrovs 6y agoYou're referring to reported income, that in Switzerland is a national tradition to hide.
- comprev 6y agoSame in Finland I believe. The fine is a % of your annual income.
- Ekaros 6y agoCalculate daily income, minus some protected cut and then multiplied by number of days. For drunk driving for example 50 "day fines". So at net monthly wage of 1800€ would be 1288. At 10k€ monthly netwage 8128€... Also Finland does have option to turn some of these day fines to prison time at rate of 4 to 1..
- BTCOG 6y agoI'd much rather pay a $100 fine for whatever it is, than waste 2-4 hours of my time.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y agoOne of my past bosses had a supercar as his daily driver. He had a specific law firm on retainer purely to handle speeding tickets. He'd call them when pulled over, and apparently they knew what to say to discourage cops from writing the ticket. People with the kind of wealth to routinely retain services like that effectively play by different rules than the rest of us in the US.
- baud147258 6y agolosing your driving license seems also a good deterrent to avoid speeding