6 ms·

YouTube's content policy is bizare. Children in my family seem to watch videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts, but then th

by kypro 6y ago

YouTube's content policy is bizare. Children in my family seem to watch videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts, but then they remove stuff like this. I guess this is what happens when advertisers are the main priority and the moderators have all been replaced with robots. Content that may actually harm the development of children is considered fine, while someone posting a slightly edgey political take or a research paper about something which triggers a bot is removed.

shakezula 6y ago
YouTube will robot-moderate themselves into the ground. Too many people are leaving the platform. It’s just a trickle now but soon it will be a flow. It’s the inevitable result of moderation based only on who’s paying you.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- iso8859-1 6y ago
  Where are people escaping to? Are people publishing their own content on Gopher or BitTorrent nowadays? These platforms have a perfect balance of usability and freedom. They can take over the world.
  - Balgair 6y ago
    It seems like they are making their own sites. Nebula is one such place where a few of the higher quality content creators are going. I've no idea if it'll work, but they are trying. https://watchnebula.com/ https://watchnebula.com/
    - CameronNemo 6y ago
      The problem with these techniques is discover ability. How do you build an online audience without paying google for advertisements?
      - dane-pgp 6y ago
        Then perhaps the solution isn't for politicians to demand that YouTube be separated from Google/Alphabet, but instead demand that users on YouTube be able to discover videos on other sites. I see no reason why the search feature within YouTube couldn't return videos that people were hosting on their personal sites or on competitors to YouTube (including Twitch VODs and livestreams). Even subscriptions and recommendations could work across platforms. YouTube could still run adverts in/on the videos, and the revenue from that would be split with the site where the video was actually published. For a greater share of the ad revenue, YouTube could also offer to stream (a copy of) the video from their own servers. Even if sites (or Multi-Channel Networks) had to pay a $1000 fee to be included in this system, and YouTube kept its rules about moderation and demonetisation, it would still greatly improve discoverability and hopefully competition generally.
    - leereeves 6y ago
      With a $5 monthly fee and no way to upload your own videos, Nebula is most directly competing against Netflix, not YouTube. A few top creators might be able to make that work, but most won't.
      - timbre1234 6y ago
        And no free trial w/o giving credit card info. Yeah, hard pass.
        bradlys 6y ago
        That is very normal. It’s to prevent people from just creating accounts multiple times to never have to pay.
        sillysaurusx 6y ago
        Use privacy.com. It's a godsend.
        clankyclanker 6y ago
        A $20 gift card is great for those things. Then, it doesn’t matter whether you remember to cancel.
  - shakezula 6y ago
    Patreon and Twitch seem to be doing a better job of handling content creators needs. I've seen a few who do everything on their own website, too, but that is less common for sure.
- 3minus1 6y ago
  > Too many people are leaving the platform A quick google search shows the platform has 2 billion monthly active users[1]. A number that has only been growing. Why do you claim people are leaving? Is it because of a handful of high-profile cases, or maybe you live in a hackernews/techie thought bubble where everyone is annoyed at youtube? The claim that people are leaving, or will leave is just completely baseless imo. This reminds me of the saying "there are 2 types of programming languages: those that people complain about, and those that no one uses". [1] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/
  - sillysaurusx 6y ago
    We've all seen mighty platforms fall. Myspace at one time could've made the same argument. You're not wrong, but that logic doesn't hold forever.
  - dmos62 6y ago
    I too don't see people leaving. We can complain all we like. Nothing will change until there's an alternative.
    - shakezula 6y ago
      Eh, I've seen several content creators I follow make loud and pointed moves away from YouTube after they've been targeted or after a high-profile case gets some news. People are leaving, and if YouTube doesn't fix its moderation, it'll only get worse. There are alternatives, just none that have done anywhere close to as well as YouTube does. It's a good product, it literally just needs to not be moderated into the ground.
  - shakezula 6y ago
    >It’s just a trickle now but soon it will be a flow. And soon after that it will be a torrential exodus. Myspace died within the space of a few months during my time in high school. YouTube could easily face a similar downfall. I'm not saying "YouTube will die in a year!" I'm saying if they don't fix their moderation problems, their auto-bans, etc... they will start to lose bigger and bigger customers more frequently. I claim people are leaving _because they are_. Just because people are joining faster than they're leaving doesn't invalidate the point that people are leaving the platform for a place where their channels won't get completely demonetized for background music that an AI flagged. Youtube has a serious moderation problem, and it will be their bullet wound when another competitor comes along.
Minor49er 6y ago
Knowing that that's what the kids are watching, why are you still allowing them to have access to YouTube?
- hansel_der 6y ago
  i kind of get where you are coming from but denying access to knowledge/reality is not helpful.
  - Minor49er 6y ago
    What knowledge/reality is gained from videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts? This is the typical kinds of content that YouTube has lined up for children. Do you really expect a cesspool like this to harbor anything of quality or value for developing minds?
    - t-writescode 6y ago
      You're speaking of a specific instance and declaring all instances bad. This is unhelpful. If that specific video exists and if it's common, this conversation could be had; but, it's relatively uncommon, making it a surprise. The real answer, as someone else has alluded to, is that YouTube is something that parents should watch or be aware of with their children. There is a great deal of valuable information on YouTube and cancelling it wholesale is absolutely the wrong approach.
      - re 6y ago
        > If that specific video exists and if it's common, this conversation could be had; but, it's relatively uncommon, making it a surprise. It is common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate
      - Minor49er 6y ago
        You realize that this comment section is in response to a story where YouTube is suspending educational content, right? Someone else already mentioned Elsagate which is still an ongoing problem as noted by the GP. YouTube is not interested in providing healthy material, which is not surprising since they are owned by the world's largest advertising company. I would advocate that parents should look for better alternatives altogether rather than use it as source of education or entertainment, even with supervision. It's simply the wrong place to go for that sort of thing.
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
The author receiving a strike can mean two things: a) the policy prohibits this b) a mistake was made. The author seems to consider the latter more likely. Likewise, Spiderman dry humping Elsa staying up can mean either that the policy allows it, or, much more likely, that they just didn't manage to identify and take it down yet.
- t-writescode 6y ago
  The problem is, how difficult is it for the average, non-special YouTube producer able to fix "b) a mistake was made." ? And, how long are they refused earnings during that time? It's similar to the copyright infringement stuff, where real livelihoods can be put in jeopardy from these sorts of decisions.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
    I'm not saying that b) is OK or means that everything is going well. I'm saying that assuming that the policy is bizarre means you're most likely looking for the problem in the wrong spot.

by kypro 6y ago

shakezula 6y ago

YouTube will robot-moderate themselves into the ground. Too many people are leaving the platform. It’s just a trickle now but soon it will be a flow. It’s the inevitable result of moderation based only on who’s paying you.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
iso8859-1 6y ago
Where are people escaping to? Are people publishing their own content on Gopher or BitTorrent nowadays? These platforms have a perfect balance of usability and freedom. They can take over the world.
- Balgair 6y ago
  It seems like they are making their own sites. Nebula is one such place where a few of the higher quality content creators are going. I've no idea if it'll work, but they are trying. https://watchnebula.com/ https://watchnebula.com/
  - CameronNemo 6y ago
    The problem with these techniques is discover ability. How do you build an online audience without paying google for advertisements?
    - dane-pgp 6y ago
      Then perhaps the solution isn't for politicians to demand that YouTube be separated from Google/Alphabet, but instead demand that users on YouTube be able to discover videos on other sites. I see no reason why the search feature within YouTube couldn't return videos that people were hosting on their personal sites or on competitors to YouTube (including Twitch VODs and livestreams). Even subscriptions and recommendations could work across platforms. YouTube could still run adverts in/on the videos, and the revenue from that would be split with the site where the video was actually published. For a greater share of the ad revenue, YouTube could also offer to stream (a copy of) the video from their own servers. Even if sites (or Multi-Channel Networks) had to pay a $1000 fee to be included in this system, and YouTube kept its rules about moderation and demonetisation, it would still greatly improve discoverability and hopefully competition generally.
  - leereeves 6y ago
    With a $5 monthly fee and no way to upload your own videos, Nebula is most directly competing against Netflix, not YouTube. A few top creators might be able to make that work, but most won't.
    - timbre1234 6y ago
      And no free trial w/o giving credit card info. Yeah, hard pass.
      - bradlys 6y ago
        That is very normal. It’s to prevent people from just creating accounts multiple times to never have to pay.
      - sillysaurusx 6y ago
        Use privacy.com. It's a godsend.
      - clankyclanker 6y ago
        A $20 gift card is great for those things. Then, it doesn’t matter whether you remember to cancel.
- shakezula 6y ago
  Patreon and Twitch seem to be doing a better job of handling content creators needs. I've seen a few who do everything on their own website, too, but that is less common for sure.
3minus1 6y ago
> Too many people are leaving the platform A quick google search shows the platform has 2 billion monthly active users[1]. A number that has only been growing. Why do you claim people are leaving? Is it because of a handful of high-profile cases, or maybe you live in a hackernews/techie thought bubble where everyone is annoyed at youtube? The claim that people are leaving, or will leave is just completely baseless imo. This reminds me of the saying "there are 2 types of programming languages: those that people complain about, and those that no one uses". [1] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/
- sillysaurusx 6y ago
  We've all seen mighty platforms fall. Myspace at one time could've made the same argument. You're not wrong, but that logic doesn't hold forever.
- dmos62 6y ago
  I too don't see people leaving. We can complain all we like. Nothing will change until there's an alternative.
  - shakezula 6y ago
    Eh, I've seen several content creators I follow make loud and pointed moves away from YouTube after they've been targeted or after a high-profile case gets some news. People are leaving, and if YouTube doesn't fix its moderation, it'll only get worse. There are alternatives, just none that have done anywhere close to as well as YouTube does. It's a good product, it literally just needs to not be moderated into the ground.
- shakezula 6y ago
  >It’s just a trickle now but soon it will be a flow. And soon after that it will be a torrential exodus. Myspace died within the space of a few months during my time in high school. YouTube could easily face a similar downfall. I'm not saying "YouTube will die in a year!" I'm saying if they don't fix their moderation problems, their auto-bans, etc... they will start to lose bigger and bigger customers more frequently. I claim people are leaving _because they are_. Just because people are joining faster than they're leaving doesn't invalidate the point that people are leaving the platform for a place where their channels won't get completely demonetized for background music that an AI flagged. Youtube has a serious moderation problem, and it will be their bullet wound when another competitor comes along.

Minor49er 6y ago

Knowing that that's what the kids are watching, why are you still allowing them to have access to YouTube?

hansel_der 6y ago
i kind of get where you are coming from but denying access to knowledge/reality is not helpful.
- Minor49er 6y ago
  What knowledge/reality is gained from videos of Spiderman dry humping Elsa or grannies kicking people in the nuts? This is the typical kinds of content that YouTube has lined up for children. Do you really expect a cesspool like this to harbor anything of quality or value for developing minds?
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    You're speaking of a specific instance and declaring all instances bad. This is unhelpful. If that specific video exists and if it's common, this conversation could be had; but, it's relatively uncommon, making it a surprise. The real answer, as someone else has alluded to, is that YouTube is something that parents should watch or be aware of with their children. There is a great deal of valuable information on YouTube and cancelling it wholesale is absolutely the wrong approach.
    - re 6y ago
      > If that specific video exists and if it's common, this conversation could be had; but, it's relatively uncommon, making it a surprise. It is common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate
    - Minor49er 6y ago
      You realize that this comment section is in response to a story where YouTube is suspending educational content, right? Someone else already mentioned Elsagate which is still an ongoing problem as noted by the GP. YouTube is not interested in providing healthy material, which is not surprising since they are owned by the world's largest advertising company. I would advocate that parents should look for better alternatives altogether rather than use it as source of education or entertainment, even with supervision. It's simply the wrong place to go for that sort of thing.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

The author receiving a strike can mean two things: a) the policy prohibits this b) a mistake was made. The author seems to consider the latter more likely. Likewise, Spiderman dry humping Elsa staying up can mean either that the policy allows it, or, much more likely, that they just didn't manage to identify and take it down yet.

t-writescode 6y ago
The problem is, how difficult is it for the average, non-special YouTube producer able to fix "b) a mistake was made." ? And, how long are they refused earnings during that time? It's similar to the copyright infringement stuff, where real livelihoods can be put in jeopardy from these sorts of decisions.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
  I'm not saying that b) is OK or means that everything is going well. I'm saying that assuming that the policy is bizarre means you're most likely looking for the problem in the wrong spot.