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Apple is suing Corellium, a maker of iPhone virtualization and pentesting software, because their tool can be used to develop exploits that bypass Apple’s secur

Apple is suing Corellium, a maker of iPhone virtualization and pentesting software, because their tool can be used to develop exploits that bypass Apple’s security? It's incredibly worrying that Apple is using the legal system to ban virtualization and pentesting software. I am surprised and saddened that Apple is going down that route.

makach 6y ago
especially so because legally forcing someone to stop using some software/exploit won't stop governments nor hackers from exploiting the vulnerability.
- HenryBemis 6y ago
  They are attacking this from every angle. Lawyers will lawyer, the techies will techie. If they just change the tech to fix it, it becomes a cat and mouse game (already is). If they kick their butts in court and force them to a $100m pay, they will teach a good lesson these guys, and force the next ones rethink it.
themolecularman 6y ago
> Apple is suing Corellium, a maker of iPhone virtualization and pentesting software, because their tool can be used to develop exploits that bypass Apple’s security? Does Apple have legal standing here or are they just using their warchest ($) to intimidate others into not following Corellium's example?
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  Copyright violation.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    Developing exploits is copyright violation now? themolecularman is specifically asking for their grounds, I think the "copyright violation" claim is just in order to start the suit, not that they actually violated Apple's copyright in any way.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - michaelt 6y ago
      Presumably, their argument is: 1. You need a license to use software 2. iOS is only licensed for use on bare-metal Apple hardware 3. Therefore, virtualisation is copyright infringement 4. Corellium makes iPhone virtualisation software Of course, many hacker types would argue if you've got a license to something there's nothing morally wrong with format-shifting it to your heart's content, regardless of what the license or the letter of the law may say. Apple is probably relying on the courts taking a less enlightened view.
      - dboreham 6y ago
        0. Using software is copyright infringement.
        otterley 6y ago
        Copying software without a license from the owner to do so is prima facie copyright infringement.
      - trhway 6y ago
        >2.&3. i would think that research, including security one, is a fair use with the virtualization being just a research device/tool in this case. Something akin to making an otherwise illegal copy to a different, more lab hardware specific format. Like say you have a copyrighted picture and you make some blow-up or X-ray photo of it for the research.
    - dylan604 6y ago
      Very similar in how running macOS on a Hackintosh is a copyright violation. You are only granted a license to the OS to run on Apple hardware. Running their OS in a virtualized environment not on Apple hardware is the same thing.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
miohtama 6y ago
There is no downside for Apple. The legal costs are insignificant for them. They do not bear any extra punitive cost even if the lawsuit is meritless. Meanwhile the PR damage or liability for having a security exploits running wild is massive. Corporate actions have no ethics or moral - it is simple bean counting for Apple. Any people who get part in this cannot lose their jobs no matter what is the outcome.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  There are huge downsides to the community, what’s next someone will sue the maintainers of nmap? If Apple wins the case it would be terrible for the infosec community, every business that got pwned due to a 5 year old wordless exploit will be able to sue Rapid7 which would quite likely mean that Metasploit will be too much of a liability to maintain.
  - floatingatoll 6y ago
    nmap neithers develops nor withholds Apple hardware and software exploits from Apple, nor offers a paid cloud service for those purposes. On what basis were you viewing nmap as a potential target for lawsuits?
casualComment2 6y ago
Nothing suprising here if you know Apples poor reputation. Apple has spent big bucks trying to brainwash through marketing.
cronix 6y ago
If jailbreaking an iPhone is legal, which also strips away Apples "protections" via an "exploit" in Apple's hardware/software then why wouldn't this be legal as well? It seems a case could be made. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/us-government-jailbreaking-iphone-legal/story?id=11254253 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/us-government-jailbreaking...
- saurik 6y ago
  Apple insists jailbreaking is illegal, and in their initial complaint against Corellium they seriously tried to argue that its use by pwn20wnd to help him while developing unc0ver (a jailbreak) was an "unlawful end" :/.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

makach 6y ago

especially so because legally forcing someone to stop using some software/exploit won't stop governments nor hackers from exploiting the vulnerability.

HenryBemis 6y ago
They are attacking this from every angle. Lawyers will lawyer, the techies will techie. If they just change the tech to fix it, it becomes a cat and mouse game (already is). If they kick their butts in court and force them to a $100m pay, they will teach a good lesson these guys, and force the next ones rethink it.

themolecularman 6y ago

> Apple is suing Corellium, a maker of iPhone virtualization and pentesting software, because their tool can be used to develop exploits that bypass Apple’s security? Does Apple have legal standing here or are they just using their warchest ($) to intimidate others into not following Corellium's example?

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
Copyright violation.
- capableweb 6y ago
  Developing exploits is copyright violation now? themolecularman is specifically asking for their grounds, I think the "copyright violation" claim is just in order to start the suit, not that they actually violated Apple's copyright in any way.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelt 6y ago
    Presumably, their argument is: 1. You need a license to use software 2. iOS is only licensed for use on bare-metal Apple hardware 3. Therefore, virtualisation is copyright infringement 4. Corellium makes iPhone virtualisation software Of course, many hacker types would argue if you've got a license to something there's nothing morally wrong with format-shifting it to your heart's content, regardless of what the license or the letter of the law may say. Apple is probably relying on the courts taking a less enlightened view.
    - dboreham 6y ago
      0. Using software is copyright infringement.
      - otterley 6y ago
        Copying software without a license from the owner to do so is prima facie copyright infringement.
    - trhway 6y ago
      >2.&3. i would think that research, including security one, is a fair use with the virtualization being just a research device/tool in this case. Something akin to making an otherwise illegal copy to a different, more lab hardware specific format. Like say you have a copyrighted picture and you make some blow-up or X-ray photo of it for the research.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    Very similar in how running macOS on a Hackintosh is a copyright violation. You are only granted a license to the OS to run on Apple hardware. Running their OS in a virtualized environment not on Apple hardware is the same thing.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

miohtama 6y ago

There is no downside for Apple. The legal costs are insignificant for them. They do not bear any extra punitive cost even if the lawsuit is meritless. Meanwhile the PR damage or liability for having a security exploits running wild is massive. Corporate actions have no ethics or moral - it is simple bean counting for Apple. Any people who get part in this cannot lose their jobs no matter what is the outcome.

dogma1138 6y ago
There are huge downsides to the community, what’s next someone will sue the maintainers of nmap? If Apple wins the case it would be terrible for the infosec community, every business that got pwned due to a 5 year old wordless exploit will be able to sue Rapid7 which would quite likely mean that Metasploit will be too much of a liability to maintain.
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  nmap neithers develops nor withholds Apple hardware and software exploits from Apple, nor offers a paid cloud service for those purposes. On what basis were you viewing nmap as a potential target for lawsuits?

casualComment2 6y ago

Nothing suprising here if you know Apples poor reputation. Apple has spent big bucks trying to brainwash through marketing.

cronix 6y ago

If jailbreaking an iPhone is legal, which also strips away Apples "protections" via an "exploit" in Apple's hardware/software then why wouldn't this be legal as well? It seems a case could be made. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/us-government-jailbreaking-iphone-legal/story?id=11254253 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/us-government-jailbreaking...

saurik 6y ago
Apple insists jailbreaking is illegal, and in their initial complaint against Corellium they seriously tried to argue that its use by pwn20wnd to help him while developing unc0ver (a jailbreak) was an "unlawful end" :/.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]