4 ms·

Good. But at the same time it should be possible to buy through private channels. So we can circumvent and get rid of the terribly inefficient bureaucrats.

tertius 5y ago
Source?
refraincomment 5y ago
As usual, advocating for personal freedom gets you downvoted. It's such a funny pattern.
- refraincomment 5y ago
  What a bunch of retards you are :)
  - dang 5y ago
    This kind of thing will get you banned here. Would you please review the rules and stick to them? You've been breaking them badly, unfortunately. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  Maybe people don’t like your idea because it reeks of the rich being able to buy their way to vaccines ahead of everyone else?
  - refraincomment 5y ago
    I didn't say anything about the rich. A vaccine costs pounds, everyone can afford it. Only thing preventing you from being covid protected is a random lazy bureaucrat in Brussels.
    - agubelu 5y ago
      Bureaucracy, and scarcity. Personal freedom to buy it would be great if there were more than plenty for everyone, but right now they should be given to those who have a much higher risk of severe complications and/or death. Not even the US allows private selling right now.
      - SamReidHughes 5y ago
        Charging money allows higher risk people to purchase it.
        agubelu 5y ago
        How exactly is selling vaccines directly to private citizens going to fix the underlying issue, which is insufficient production?
        SamReidHughes 5y ago
        When dealing with complex dynamical systems (such as markets), you don't get exact answers. You get general phenomena which require intelligence to understand. But in this case, the answer's very simple, and in my opinion, very obvious: High-risk people value the vaccine more, and allocating a proportion to the open market gives them the option of paying for one instead of having to wait for government permission. This is a first-order effect, not even a second-order effect. The second-order effect would have been that more people might have been incentivized to create a vaccine if you opened the door for more profits. Right now there are lots of individuals throughout the world who don't have access to a vaccine.
    - Denvercoder9 5y ago
      You must be delusional. What's preventing you from being vaccinated is the scarcity of vaccines, and those being allocated to the people that need them most, instead of those that pay the most. If they were sold on the free market the price would rise rapidly above the current price, as demand outnumbers supply by at least an order of magnitude.
akmarinov 5y ago
Once given full approval and not just emergency use, they can sell directly to the people.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Well, dugs like vaccines are not sold to private parties. At least in country I know. EDIT: To clarify, vaccines are not sold without a prescription. At least not that I am aware of and where I life. So for me, a sale to a private party was understood as "you walk in and order it". Obviously you can do that with a prescription. That being said, doctors practices are already administering the Covid shots in the EU. Not as unbeaurocratic as the US so.
  - dustinmoris 5y ago
    They are in Europe. You can go to your family doctor and ask for a flu shot even if you are young and don't get it recommended by default. Same as you can go to your doctor and ask for lots of other vaccines because you want to travel abroad for instance. I paid for many vaccines in private in Austria in order to travel to certain countries. Don't see why I shouldn't be able to pay for a COVID-19 vaccine the same way.
    - hef19898 5y ago
      Ah, sure. But the produceris selling to the doctor who is then administering the shot to you. Quite different from you buying the shot for yourself. Without an ordonance from a doctor you wont get a vaccine.
      - 4140tm 5y ago
        Every year I go to the pharmacy and buy a flu vaccine. I can then get the shot in a way convenient for me.
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        > Without an ordonance from a doctor you wont get a vaccine. Like many people are trying to explain to you, you're just talking nonsense. You can get many vaccinations commercially without any kind of prescription in most western countries. Many countries even have commercial chains of shops that do this - for example example here's a price list of a company in the UK. https://www.masta-travel-health.com/Booking/Wellness https://www.masta-travel-health.com/Booking/Wellness In the UK even normal supermarkets offer for example vaccination against influenza as a normal over-the-counter product routinely.
refraincomment 5y ago
I think it's impossible to have a pro-choice viewpoint in discussion websites. People get too nervous and defensive.
estaseuropano 5y ago
Eu paid just a few euro per dose with other countries (and certainly individuals) paying 20x as much. Seems they are not so inefficient after all..
- djbebs 5y ago
  Pretty sure the EU paid around the same price as the US
  - foepys 5y ago
    The EU could've issued an export ban for Covid vaccines like the US and UK did but did not want to. There would have been 34 million more doses available until the end of March if they had done it. But even in these times, the EU rather supports their allies than revert to nationalism. It could pay dividends in the future.
    - detritus 5y ago
      The UK has a vaccine export ban in place? "Let me be clear: we have not blocked the export of a single covid-19 vaccine or vaccine components." - Boris Johnson https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-10/debates/8A812FBA-2250-47E1-9204-D18495C8B9A4/Engagements#contribution-B099F93B-FF65-4F8A-BD09-94AB2AADF1E4 https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-10/debates/8A8... The UK has certainly sent a few hundred thousand to Australia - they even did it 'on the quiet' so as not to enrage the frothing tabloid classes.
      - foepys 5y ago
        The UK does not formally restrict exports but it didn't export a single dose to the EU despite AZ telling the EU that they would. This lead to the export controls the EU put in place where the EU can forbid exports into countries that don't export themselves. AZ exported 9 million doses into the UK, the UK didn't export a single dose back. The UK most likely sent them to Australia because Italy blocked AZ exports to Australia.

tertius 5y ago

Source?

refraincomment 5y ago

As usual, advocating for personal freedom gets you downvoted. It's such a funny pattern.

refraincomment 5y ago
What a bunch of retards you are :)
- dang 5y ago
  This kind of thing will get you banned here. Would you please review the rules and stick to them? You've been breaking them badly, unfortunately. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
Maybe people don’t like your idea because it reeks of the rich being able to buy their way to vaccines ahead of everyone else?
- refraincomment 5y ago
  I didn't say anything about the rich. A vaccine costs pounds, everyone can afford it. Only thing preventing you from being covid protected is a random lazy bureaucrat in Brussels.
  - agubelu 5y ago
    Bureaucracy, and scarcity. Personal freedom to buy it would be great if there were more than plenty for everyone, but right now they should be given to those who have a much higher risk of severe complications and/or death. Not even the US allows private selling right now.
    - SamReidHughes 5y ago
      Charging money allows higher risk people to purchase it.
      - agubelu 5y ago
        How exactly is selling vaccines directly to private citizens going to fix the underlying issue, which is insufficient production?
        SamReidHughes 5y ago
        When dealing with complex dynamical systems (such as markets), you don't get exact answers. You get general phenomena which require intelligence to understand. But in this case, the answer's very simple, and in my opinion, very obvious: High-risk people value the vaccine more, and allocating a proportion to the open market gives them the option of paying for one instead of having to wait for government permission. This is a first-order effect, not even a second-order effect. The second-order effect would have been that more people might have been incentivized to create a vaccine if you opened the door for more profits. Right now there are lots of individuals throughout the world who don't have access to a vaccine.
  - Denvercoder9 5y ago
    You must be delusional. What's preventing you from being vaccinated is the scarcity of vaccines, and those being allocated to the people that need them most, instead of those that pay the most. If they were sold on the free market the price would rise rapidly above the current price, as demand outnumbers supply by at least an order of magnitude.

akmarinov 5y ago

Once given full approval and not just emergency use, they can sell directly to the people.

hef19898 5y ago
Well, dugs like vaccines are not sold to private parties. At least in country I know. EDIT: To clarify, vaccines are not sold without a prescription. At least not that I am aware of and where I life. So for me, a sale to a private party was understood as "you walk in and order it". Obviously you can do that with a prescription. That being said, doctors practices are already administering the Covid shots in the EU. Not as unbeaurocratic as the US so.
- dustinmoris 5y ago
  They are in Europe. You can go to your family doctor and ask for a flu shot even if you are young and don't get it recommended by default. Same as you can go to your doctor and ask for lots of other vaccines because you want to travel abroad for instance. I paid for many vaccines in private in Austria in order to travel to certain countries. Don't see why I shouldn't be able to pay for a COVID-19 vaccine the same way.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Ah, sure. But the produceris selling to the doctor who is then administering the shot to you. Quite different from you buying the shot for yourself. Without an ordonance from a doctor you wont get a vaccine.
    - 4140tm 5y ago
      Every year I go to the pharmacy and buy a flu vaccine. I can then get the shot in a way convenient for me.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      > Without an ordonance from a doctor you wont get a vaccine. Like many people are trying to explain to you, you're just talking nonsense. You can get many vaccinations commercially without any kind of prescription in most western countries. Many countries even have commercial chains of shops that do this - for example example here's a price list of a company in the UK. https://www.masta-travel-health.com/Booking/Wellness https://www.masta-travel-health.com/Booking/Wellness In the UK even normal supermarkets offer for example vaccination against influenza as a normal over-the-counter product routinely.

refraincomment 5y ago

I think it's impossible to have a pro-choice viewpoint in discussion websites. People get too nervous and defensive.

estaseuropano 5y ago

Eu paid just a few euro per dose with other countries (and certainly individuals) paying 20x as much. Seems they are not so inefficient after all..

djbebs 5y ago
Pretty sure the EU paid around the same price as the US
- foepys 5y ago
  The EU could've issued an export ban for Covid vaccines like the US and UK did but did not want to. There would have been 34 million more doses available until the end of March if they had done it. But even in these times, the EU rather supports their allies than revert to nationalism. It could pay dividends in the future.
  - detritus 5y ago
    The UK has a vaccine export ban in place? "Let me be clear: we have not blocked the export of a single covid-19 vaccine or vaccine components." - Boris Johnson https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-10/debates/8A812FBA-2250-47E1-9204-D18495C8B9A4/Engagements#contribution-B099F93B-FF65-4F8A-BD09-94AB2AADF1E4 https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-10/debates/8A8... The UK has certainly sent a few hundred thousand to Australia - they even did it 'on the quiet' so as not to enrage the frothing tabloid classes.
    - foepys 5y ago
      The UK does not formally restrict exports but it didn't export a single dose to the EU despite AZ telling the EU that they would. This lead to the export controls the EU put in place where the EU can forbid exports into countries that don't export themselves. AZ exported 9 million doses into the UK, the UK didn't export a single dose back. The UK most likely sent them to Australia because Italy blocked AZ exports to Australia.