5 ms·

Isn’t meth one of those things taken out of despair? Is there a root cause here that Isn’t being dug into?

by SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago

emodendroket 6y ago
I’m sure it is but I’m not sure how much overlap there is between that group and the meth-fueled orgy group.
- SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
  I think if you’re taking highly addictive stimulants and doing things you later acknowledge as unsafe like unprotected sex I would speculate something is going wrong in your life that’s compelling you to participate in self destructive activities and that you should get help for the root causes of it.
  - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
    I disagree. Google "meth and sex", and pretty much everything you read will say that meth will make sex feel absolutely amazing. So it could be the case that, especially when people are young, they know the dangers but think "hey, I know myself, I can do it once or twice without getting addicted" The problem with meth is that it's so very addictive that you don't necessarily need to be in a pit of despair to get hooked.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
      Right, but my question then becomes why are young 20 somethings being exposed to meth without the support necessary to avoid taking it or not needing it in their lives? I was young, 20 something too, with access to meth— but I had more in my life than drugs, and I didn’t need it to party or have a good time, and I had mentors I could talk to about it. Is something going wrong where there are deeper problems here that the article isn’t addressing, is my question, because it’s not like drastic increases in meth-related diseases spontaneously appear in 20 year olds.
      - emodendroket 6y ago
        I really think a lot of young people going for a hedonistic sex and drugs lifestyle are simply being drawn for a very different reason than people in depressed Rust Belt towns.
      - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
        I mean, it's been well studied that there is a surge in risk taking behaviors among late teen/early 20-something men across literally all human societies, which is why you see a spike in accidental death for this group. The problem is for most types of risk taking, if you survive it, you make it to be a late 20-something man and move on. With meth (and other drugs), it keeps you addicted.
  - standardUser 6y ago
    Could there maybe be another explanation, such as that drugs and sex are incredibly, ridiculously and uniquely fun human experiences? That's my wild speculation.
throw20210414 6y ago
throwaway for obvious reasons... meth seems to be the catalyst for the bad behavior done either recreationally (orgies) or while in bad situations arising from a cluster of root causes. I'm only going to address the latter: the article mentions homeless women who trade sex for shelter. My sister is literally trying to be homeless right now. She has serious mental issues and can't live with anyone for long before she ruins their life and gets kicked out. this is a 20-year-long pattern. She even has access to therapy and shelter, but doesn't accept it. she has adhd and is probably somewhat spectral. she has a very narrow idea of how she wants to live her life: get an easy part-time job, live alone, and pay low rent. But this is not easy when she also freaks out on people, accusing them of abuse, physically assaulting them, etc. So she sometimes starts relationships with people to get access to shelter for short periods. Who knows what she's compromising on behind those closed doors. Could be unprotected sex and offers of drugs. I know for sure pot, alcohol, and cigarettes, but how much farther does it go? I know she's experiment with cocaine and psychedelics. Our family is devastated by all of this, has no idea what to do next, having taking advice from many caring friends, health professionals, etc. So it's not just one root cause, there are numerous issues of economics, shelter, mental illness, biology, personal responsibility, modernity, inequality, alcoholic parents, realistic expectations and so on that all build on each other creating a "strange attractor," or quite a simply, a "drain." When our species/culture was all outdoors anyway, I think crazy people like her used to fit in on the fringes. Raising a child had lots of beneficial influence from different types of people instead of just one alcoholic parent like in our case, or lots of phony impressions from self-filtered social media and brain-wave-engineered advertisements. Inequality in native tribes wasn't as extreme and we didn't have "rich kids" in class to compare ourselves to. Once daily living required keeping track of lots of things, like money, and sustaining professional relationships, the fringes of living got narrow and harsh. Then, when having an acceptable online life got added: passwords, service payments, visible resume, working phone, with charge locations, even more people fell through the cracks. They're the ones you seen in tents, in the woods, on the streets. And there is no easy solution... Fix half of the factors I listed above and the rest of the pattern will persist. This doesn't even address how many of these people end up in jail. If there's anything we can do, it's to find small ways to make "traditional life" a little easier for people who can't handle all of this.

Isn’t meth one of those things taken out of despair? Is there a root cause here that Isn’t being dug into?

emodendroket 6y ago

I’m sure it is but I’m not sure how much overlap there is between that group and the meth-fueled orgy group.

SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
I think if you’re taking highly addictive stimulants and doing things you later acknowledge as unsafe like unprotected sex I would speculate something is going wrong in your life that’s compelling you to participate in self destructive activities and that you should get help for the root causes of it.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  I disagree. Google "meth and sex", and pretty much everything you read will say that meth will make sex feel absolutely amazing. So it could be the case that, especially when people are young, they know the dangers but think "hey, I know myself, I can do it once or twice without getting addicted" The problem with meth is that it's so very addictive that you don't necessarily need to be in a pit of despair to get hooked.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 6y ago
    Right, but my question then becomes why are young 20 somethings being exposed to meth without the support necessary to avoid taking it or not needing it in their lives? I was young, 20 something too, with access to meth— but I had more in my life than drugs, and I didn’t need it to party or have a good time, and I had mentors I could talk to about it. Is something going wrong where there are deeper problems here that the article isn’t addressing, is my question, because it’s not like drastic increases in meth-related diseases spontaneously appear in 20 year olds.
    - emodendroket 6y ago
      I really think a lot of young people going for a hedonistic sex and drugs lifestyle are simply being drawn for a very different reason than people in depressed Rust Belt towns.
    - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
      I mean, it's been well studied that there is a surge in risk taking behaviors among late teen/early 20-something men across literally all human societies, which is why you see a spike in accidental death for this group. The problem is for most types of risk taking, if you survive it, you make it to be a late 20-something man and move on. With meth (and other drugs), it keeps you addicted.
- standardUser 6y ago
  Could there maybe be another explanation, such as that drugs and sex are incredibly, ridiculously and uniquely fun human experiences? That's my wild speculation.

throw20210414 6y ago

throwaway for obvious reasons... meth seems to be the catalyst for the bad behavior done either recreationally (orgies) or while in bad situations arising from a cluster of root causes. I'm only going to address the latter: the article mentions homeless women who trade sex for shelter. My sister is literally trying to be homeless right now. She has serious mental issues and can't live with anyone for long before she ruins their life and gets kicked out. this is a 20-year-long pattern. She even has access to therapy and shelter, but doesn't accept it. she has adhd and is probably somewhat spectral. she has a very narrow idea of how she wants to live her life: get an easy part-time job, live alone, and pay low rent. But this is not easy when she also freaks out on people, accusing them of abuse, physically assaulting them, etc. So she sometimes starts relationships with people to get access to shelter for short periods. Who knows what she's compromising on behind those closed doors. Could be unprotected sex and offers of drugs. I know for sure pot, alcohol, and cigarettes, but how much farther does it go? I know she's experiment with cocaine and psychedelics. Our family is devastated by all of this, has no idea what to do next, having taking advice from many caring friends, health professionals, etc. So it's not just one root cause, there are numerous issues of economics, shelter, mental illness, biology, personal responsibility, modernity, inequality, alcoholic parents, realistic expectations and so on that all build on each other creating a "strange attractor," or quite a simply, a "drain." When our species/culture was all outdoors anyway, I think crazy people like her used to fit in on the fringes. Raising a child had lots of beneficial influence from different types of people instead of just one alcoholic parent like in our case, or lots of phony impressions from self-filtered social media and brain-wave-engineered advertisements. Inequality in native tribes wasn't as extreme and we didn't have "rich kids" in class to compare ourselves to. Once daily living required keeping track of lots of things, like money, and sustaining professional relationships, the fringes of living got narrow and harsh. Then, when having an acceptable online life got added: passwords, service payments, visible resume, working phone, with charge locations, even more people fell through the cracks. They're the ones you seen in tents, in the woods, on the streets. And there is no easy solution... Fix half of the factors I listed above and the rest of the pattern will persist. This doesn't even address how many of these people end up in jail. If there's anything we can do, it's to find small ways to make "traditional life" a little easier for people who can't handle all of this.